Arguello V Pryor - Tell me about this fight

[Fat Joe]

I started getting into boxing when Benn, Eubank, Hamed etc came on the scene, so I haven't got much knowledge of the game before this.

I was watching a programme on ITV 4 yesterday with boxers Duke McKensie and Barry McGuigan going over old fights. One of the featured fights was Arguello V Pryor. I've heard of these two and know what they look like, but don't know much about their careers.

On this programme they highlighted what happened in the corner, I think it was after the 12th, when Pryor's corner man said something along the lines of, "Pass me the bottle I mixed earlier". So Pryor goes out like a man possessed and stops Arguello.

I've never heard of this controversy before.

What was the background to this fight, where were these two fighters at in their careers?

How was the fight going before the stoppage?

What really happened between the 12th and 13th?

[the cobra]

Arguello (man in my avatar) was the former Featherweight, Jr.Lightweight, and Lightweight champion of the world. He never lost those titles but vacated them, and he was challenging Pryor to become the first 4-division champion in history. He was at the end of his career, after something like 80 fights and 14 years into his career.

Pryor was the undefeated Jr.Welterweight champion who took the crown from an old Antonio Cervantes, and had made 5 defenses of this title, all by knockout. He had stopped all but 2 of his opponents I believe. Pryor's division was pretty weak at the time, and he was looking for big names, most noteably Ray Leonard whom he called out on a few occasions. So Arguello was his highest profile opponent. I believe Alexis was a 2-1 favorite to win.

It was an awesome fight, great action throughout. Both men landed a lot of bombs, and by the 12th round it was very close. I can't really say what happened with the "black bottle" in the corner, but there is a big controversy around it as only water is allowed in the corner and Pryor's trainer said "the one that I mixed," then Pryor came out apparently more energized.

In the 14th round Pryor backed Arguello up into the ropes and unloaded a savage combination before Arguello sunk to the canvas and the fight was stopped.

They had a rematch, and Pryor stopped Arguello in the 10th. Both retired after that fight, but both made comebacks later on.

One of the best fights I've ever seen.

[Bill Butcher]

I think the cobra has just about covered it... saved me A LOT of typing.

Ps. Their 2nd fight hardly ever gets mentioned as an all time great fight because it was more 1 sided than the 1st fight but you should check it out, its 1 of the best ever aswell IMO.

[the cobra]

Their 2nd fight was very good as well. Not on the level of their first IMO, but Alexis was still able to land some nice shots throughout. He was pretty much done by then though, somewhat like the 3rd fight between Pacquiao and Morales if you've seen that one. Morales was clearly done but still putting up a fight until he realized it wasn't going to happen and he was dropped for the 3rd time and sat on the canvas until he was counted out, Arguello did the same.

If you want to learn more about the background, HBO did a show on their first fight on their Legendary Nights series that is quite good. It should be on youtube.

[Fat Joe]

Thanks for the replies fellas

[JohnThomas1]

Mate, pretty sure both bouts are on youtube. Well worth the time.

[natonic]

I was a big Arguello fan. My whole family was. During the fight we kept thinking, OK, now Arguello gets him. There were a couple times Arguello hit him that it looked like Pryor's head just might fly off. Arguello always came on and got guys out of there later in the fight. But Pryor kept coming back. The black bottle thing certainly lends a lot of intrigue to the fight. I tend to think that Pryor was just a little bit better at 140 than Arguello, but the bottle controversy taints the win a little. You can say that Pryor beat him in the rematch without any bottles, but the damage to Arguello had already been done. Personally, I hold Panama Lewis exclusively accountable for the black bottle and just feel like Pryor won the fight.

[kickbxn5]

Pryor was never the same after the 2nd Arguello bout. The fast life and his demons got to him. He attempted an comeback and looked like a shell of his self, getting KO'd by Bobby Joe Young. Arguello came back as well, KOing Billy Costello.

[DINAMITA]

Arguello and Pryor are the two guys in my avatar. I don't have much to add to what Cobra & co have already set, except track the 1st fight down as soon as you possibly can, and enjoy the thrilling pleasure of watching two masters at their bloody, brutal best!

[Fat Joe]

Arguello came back as well, KOing Billy Costello.

First boxing book I read was Costello's biography, I think it's by Thomas Hauser.

[TommyV]

Just to let you know. Panama Lewis to this today maintains that all was in the bottle was a mixture of mineral water or some sorts and tap water if I'm correct. Pryor did have insane stamina though.

[JohnThomas1]

Just to let you know. Panama Lewis to this today maintains that all was in the bottle was a mixture of mineral water or some sorts and tap water if I'm correct. Pryor did have insane stamina though.

That scumbags word is worth less than nothing.

Not saying there was anything in the bottle, it's all guesswork.

[TommyV]

That scumbags word is worth less than nothing.

Very true.

He doesn't appear to show any remorse for the Resto-Collins situation either. Instead he goes on about how nobody takes into consideration his feelings because his father apparently died prior to the fight. :roll:

[la-califa]

Arguello (man in my avatar) was the former Featherweight, Jr.Lightweight, and Lightweight champion of the world. He never lost those titles but vacated them, and he was challenging Pryor to become the first 4-division champion in history. He was at the end of his career, after something like 80 fights and 14 years into his career.

Pryor was the undefeated Jr.Welterweight champion who took the crown from an old Antonio Cervantes, and had made 5 defenses of this title, all by knockout. He had stopped all but 2 of his opponents I believe. Pryor's division was pretty weak at the time, and he was looking for big names, most noteably Ray Leonard whom he called out on a few occasions. So Arguello was his highest profile opponent. I believe Alexis was a 2-1 favorite to win.

It was an awesome fight, great action throughout. Both men landed a lot of bombs, and by the 12th round it was very close. I can't really say what happened with the "black bottle" in the corner, but there is a big controversy around it as only water is allowed in the corner and Pryor's trainer said "the one that I mixed," then Pryor came out apparently more energized.

In the 14th round Pryor backed Arguello up into the ropes and unloaded a savage combination before Arguello sunk to the canvas and the fight was stopped.

They had a rematch, and Pryor stopped Arguello in the 10th. Both retired after that fight, but both made comebacks later on.

One of the best fights I've ever seen. Plus the key drama to the fight was. Arguello had the deserved reputation of coming on strong in the late rounds. Pryor started like a whirlwind, then slowly Arguello turned the momentum his way and started landing hard shots. One in particullar was a crunching right hand in the 12th or 13th round, which landed flush on Pryor's face. Then Pryor At the start of the 14th round seemed to come out of nowhere to back up Arguello and catch him with thunderous blows! The last of which a brutal right hand broke Arguello's nose. A great fight.

[booradley]

A couple of interesting side notes: Argeullo could have went after Mamby and captured his 4th world title, but said he could not consider himself the real champ unless he beat Pryor. Everybody besides Pryor who faced Arguello at 140 got sparked, including Vilomar Fernandez who Arguello lost to in his first fight at 135.

If you look up the word "champion" in most dictionarys all they have is a picture of El Flaco Explosivo! Well --- not really -- but he certainly defined the word many times over in his career.

There is no shortage of great fights on Arguello's resume, but here are a couple that I wish we could have seen:

Alexis Arguello vs Danny "Little Red" Lopez at 126

Arguello/Duran at 135.

[mcvey]

I started getting into boxing when Benn, Eubank, Hamed etc came on the scene, so I haven't got much knowledge of the game before this.

I was watching a programme on ITV 4 yesterday with boxers Duke McKensie and Barry McGuigan going over old fights. One of the featured fights was Arguello V Pryor. I've heard of these two and know what they look like, but don't know much about their careers.

On this programme they highlighted what happened in the corner, I think it was after the 12th, when Pryor's corner man said something along the lines of, "Pass me the bottle I mixed earlier". So Pryor goes out like a man possessed and stops Arguello.

I've never heard of this controversy before.

What was the background to this fight, where were these two fighters at in their careers?

How was the fight going before the stoppage?

What really happened between the 12th and 13th?
Pryor marched through Arguello's right hands like they were nothing ,I don't know what was in that bottle but I bet it wasn't just water !

[salsanchezfan]

Pryor marched through Arguello's right hands like they were nothing ,I don't know what was in that bottle but I bet it wasn't just water !



............The problem I have with this is that if you listen to Lewis in the corner between the 13th and 14th rounds, he's telling the guy "gimme the black bottle; the one that I mixed!" As if that bottle was an exception to the ones they had been dealing with up to that point.

It's all guesswork of course, but one has to wonder. Let's not forget the great work Pryor had done leading up to that damning moment. If indeed it was only between the 13th and 14th round that the drugs were administered, why take away from what Pryor had done up till then? He was winning the bout going away (regardless of what the judges said; Pryor was kicking his ass).

[Fat Joe]

If indeed it was only between the 13th and 14th round that the drugs were administered, why take away from what Pryor had done up till then? He was winning the bout going away (regardless of what the judges said; Pryor was kicking his ass).

But how badly was he tiring? Could Arguello have maybe scored a late stoppage himself?

[divac]

............The problem I have with this is that if you listen to Lewis in the corner between the 13th and 14th rounds, he's telling the guy "gimme the black bottle; the one that I mixed!" As if that bottle was an exception to the ones they had been dealing with up to that point.

It's all guesswork of course, but one has to wonder. Let's not forget the great work Pryor had done leading up to that damning moment. If indeed it was only between the 13th and 14th round that the drugs were administered, why take away from what Pryor had done up till then? He was winning the bout going away (regardless of what the judges said; Pryor was kicking his ass).

I wish somebody else could back me up on this......but I've seen segments (and there is video evidence) that catches Panama Lewis asking for the black bottle earlier in the fight.

I've mentioned this to you before Sal, but I know that you're not convinced about it.....but yes, Pryor was being given from that bottle at various points during the fight.....at least 2 dosings are for certain.


Then to compound the issue, just weeks after Panama Lewis works Pryor's corner vs Arguello, Panama (who was later convicted, sent to jail, and banned for life from boxing for it) is found to have taken out the paddings from one of his fighters gloves, who went on to rearrange the face and ruin the life of Billy Collins.:-(
......this is only weeks after the black bottle incident.....its what makes it so hard to believe that Panama and Pryor surely used something in that bottle mix that greatly benefited them.

.....and if Panama took the padding off of Luis Resto's gloves, who's to say he did'nt take some of the padding off of Pryor's gloves also?

Just an unfortunate situation, but I cant look at that Arguello-Pryor fight and feel that Pryor was just the better fighter.
Arguello did'nt get a fair crack at history imo, and for such a fine proffesional as he was, its truly a shame!:-(

[salsanchezfan]

But how badly was he tiring? Could Arguello have maybe scored a late stoppage himself?


...........Nah; Pryor was fine.

[salsanchezfan]

I wish somebody else could back me up on this......but I've seen segments (and there is video evidence) that catches Panama Lewis asking for the black bottle earlier in the fight.

I've mentioned this to you before Sal, but I know that you're not convinced about it.....but yes, Pryor was being given from that bottle at various points during the fight.....at least 2 dosings are for certain.


Then to compound the issue, just weeks after Panama Lewis works Pryor's corner vs Arguello, Panama (who was later convicted, sent to jail, and banned for life from boxing for it) is found to have taken out the paddings from one of his fighters gloves, who went on to rearrange the face and ruin the life of Billy Collins.:-(
......this is only weeks after the black bottle incident.....its what makes it so hard to believe that Panama and Pryor surely used something in that bottle mix that greatly benefited them.

.....and if Panama took the padding off of Luis Resto's gloves, who's to say he did'nt take some of the padding off of Pryor's gloves also?

Just an unfortunate situation, but I cant look at that Arguello-Pryor fight and feel that Pryor was just the better fighter.
Arguello did'nt get a fair crack at history imo, and for such a fine proffesional as he was, its truly a shame!:-(



..........Let's put it this way; I wouldn't for one second put it past Lewis to have been feeding him stuff all along, it's just that I've never seen evidence of it other than that one moment between the 13th and 14th.

[Robbi]

I wish somebody else could back me up on this......but I've seen segments (and there is video evidence) that catches Panama Lewis asking for the black bottle earlier in the fight.

I've mentioned this to you before Sal, but I know that you're not convinced about it.....but yes, Pryor was being given from that bottle at various points during the fight.....at least 2 dosings are for certain.


Then to compound the issue, just weeks after Panama Lewis works Pryor's corner vs Arguello, Panama (who was later convicted, sent to jail, and banned for life from boxing for it) is found to have taken out the paddings from one of his fighters gloves, who went on to rearrange the face and ruin the life of Billy Collins.:-(
......this is only weeks after the black bottle incident.....its what makes it so hard to believe that Panama and Pryor surely used something in that bottle mix that greatly benefited them.

.....and if Panama took the padding off of Luis Resto's gloves, who's to say he did'nt take some of the padding off of Pryor's gloves also?

Just an unfortunate situation, but I cant look at that Arguello-Pryor fight and feel that Pryor was just the better fighter.
Arguello did'nt get a fair crack at history imo, and for such a fine proffesional as he was, its truly a shame!:-(

Divac. Get a photo of yourself on here. You'll see the tread for it elsewhere on the Classic.

[natonic]

I wish somebody else could back me up on this......but I've seen segments (and there is video evidence) that catches Panama Lewis asking for the black bottle earlier in the fight.

I've mentioned this to you before Sal, but I know that you're not convinced about it.....but yes, Pryor was being given from that bottle at various points during the fight.....at least 2 dosings are for certain.


Then to compound the issue, just weeks after Panama Lewis works Pryor's corner vs Arguello, Panama (who was later convicted, sent to jail, and banned for life from boxing for it) is found to have taken out the paddings from one of his fighters gloves, who went on to rearrange the face and ruin the life of Billy Collins.:-(
......this is only weeks after the black bottle incident.....its what makes it so hard to believe that Panama and Pryor surely used something in that bottle mix that greatly benefited them.

.....and if Panama took the padding off of Luis Resto's gloves, who's to say he did'nt take some of the padding off of Pryor's gloves also?

Just an unfortunate situation, but I cant look at that Arguello-Pryor fight and feel that Pryor was just the better fighter.
Arguello did'nt get a fair crack at history imo, and for such a fine proffesional as he was, its truly a shame!:-(

Divac. I was an Arguello fanatic. Twenty six years is a long time but my memory of the fight is the same as yours. I don't think the black bottle situation was restricted to between the 13th and 14th rounds. I seem to recall somebody, HBO, NBC (I'm not really sure who) doing a segment on it and the black bottle was used/referenced more than one time. It just makes sense too. It's not like Pryor was crusing through the fight. This was one of the most brutal fights ever from a standpoint of pace and clean blows landed. Why would Lewis save it for then when there were several times before that point that it looked like Pryor's head was going to fly off.

Question. Was there a post fight drug test? I'm sure we've come light years in drug testing since then, but I know they had them. I seem to recall some kind of screw in that area too.

It looks bad, especially with Panama Lewis involved. But like I said before, I try to give Pryor the benefit of the doubt. He was a great fighter.

[heehoo]

You have to see Pryor-Arguello I, it's unbelievable.

Some say the bottle had Schnapps, others said it was laced with cocaine... the world will never really know. But it was a FANTASTIC fight nonetheless. Literally non-stop action for 14 rounds.

[the cobra]

Originally posted by natonic
Question. Was there a post fight drug test? I'm sure we've come light years in drug testing since then, but I know they had them. I seem to recall some kind of screw in that area too.
The at the time new Miami Commission forgot to take urine samples from the fighters, so no, they didn't make them take drug tests after this fight.

[Saints Fan]

Want to know what a class act Arguello was, watch his fight with "Boom Boom" Mancini. After he thoroughly beats his ass, he tells him "don't worry one day you will be champion. If there is anything I can do to help you let me know." Total class act, boxing sure could use a few guys like that now. Aaron Pryor was one hell of a fighter, tough s.o.b. regardless what was in the bottle. Booze, women and Cocaine were his undoing. They're matchup was one for the ages. ATG fight

[Bad_Intentions]

Pryor was one of the greatest fighters of all times, he qualified for the olympic trials by beating thomas hearns in '76, but lost a controversial decision in the olympic trials final round to howard davis, Aaron thought he would've been alot more successfull with his career if he had won the gold medal at the olympics.

It is known that ray leonard use to train with pryor and according to some of pryor's handlers and promoter butch lewis aaron gave leonard alot of trouble and actually knocked him down a couple of times.

After pryor cleaned up the lightweight division (135) he went up 5 pounds to the Jr Welterweight division (140) , and in his 2nd fight as a 140 he faced antonio cervantes for the title, knocking him out.

After that fight he would only face mandatory challangers, before the arguello fight he was interested in fighting ray leonard but the fight never happened.

The controversy with the 'black bottle' was that arguello's handlers thought the water was mixed with a stimulant which gave pryor energy when he was tired.

Pryor cleared all doubts about the black bottle by beating arguello in the 2nd fight in 1983.

But 140 was not arguello's best weight, it was actually featherweight.

After both fights, pryor kept winning and retired in 1985, he got into trouble with the law and was addicted to cocaine for 2 years, he came back in 1987 against bobby joe young, pryor having being away for 2 years and using cocaine was knocked out by young.

the following years pryor fought 3 more times winning all of them by KO against lower oppositions.

in 1990 pryor fought 1 time and was discovered that he had been fighting with eye problems, and was forced to retire from the sport.

Arguello also battled cocaine addictions, but came back during the late 80's and won some fights until retiring for good in 1995.

[natonic]

"Pryor cleared all doubts about the black bottle by beating arguello in the 2nd fight in 1983."

Arguello was at the end of his career and suffered a brutal knockout in the first fight. I don't think the 2nd fight cleared any doubt about the first fight at all.

"After pryor cleaned up the lightweight division (135) he went up 5 pounds to the Jr Welterweight division (140) , and in his 2nd fight as a 140 he faced antonio cervantes for the title, knocking him out."

He never really beat anybody of note at 135.

[Bad_Intentions]

He never really beat anybody of note at 135.

Yes, that's why he jumped into the 140lbs division.

[salsanchezfan]

Yes, that's why he jumped into the 140lbs division.



...............So how is that "cleaning out the division" if he never really fought anybody there?

[The Wanderer]

I wish somebody else could back me up on this......but I've seen segments (and there is video evidence) that catches Panama Lewis asking for the black bottle earlier in the fight.

There is. I forget exactly where it was, maybe it was before the 11th or 12th rounds, but you can hear Lewis asking for the "other bottle" in between rounds. Pryor started the following round by running out of his corner to the middle of the ring and right at Arguello.

As pointed out earlier in the thread, the Miami sanctioning body was incredibly new and clumsy at the time, so the lack of drug testing was just one of numerous problems that happened on fight night.

Great, great fight, well worth watching, and both the entire fight and the Legendary Nights documentary on it should still be on youtube.

The black bottle is a real shame because it both throws a shadow over an all time great fight, and, (because this bout really forged and solidified Pryor's reputation), over Pryor, who was a hell of a fighter.

Pryor and Arguello became big friends and still meet each other a couple of times each year apparently, (and Pryor went down to Nicaragua to help with publicity for Arguello's political career) so whatever happened they've come to terms about it, but something shady definitely happened.

[JohnThomas1]

There is. I forget exactly where it was, maybe it was before the 11th or 12th rounds, but you can hear Lewis asking for the "other bottle" in between rounds. Pryor started the following round by running out of his corner to the middle of the ring and right at Arguello.

As pointed out earlier in the thread, the Miami sanctioning body was incredibly new and clumsy at the time, so the lack of drug testing was just one of numerous problems that happened on fight night.

Great, great fight, well worth watching, and both the entire fight and the Legendary Nights documentary on it should still be on youtube.

The black bottle is a real shame because it both throws a shadow over an all time great fight, and, (because this bout really forged and solidified Pryor's reputation), over Pryor, who was a hell of a fighter.

Pryor and Arguello became big friends and still meet each other a couple of times each year apparently, (and Pryor went down to Nicaragua to help with publicity for Arguello's political career) so whatever happened they've come to terms about it, but something shady definitely happened.

One extra i will add is that Arguello still asks him what was in that curious black bottle.

[birddog]

Yeah the black Bottle controversy does cast a shadow over the fight. As rightly it should.

Especially in light of the Resto v Collins fight in 83 and the tragic results, that ensued. Panama Lewis is scum as is Resto.

Sad state of affairs
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links](boxer ([Only registered and activated users can see links]))