Great fighters on their best nights

[Bill Butcher]

Im talking about fighters on a night were they looked as unbeatable as can be for whatever weight they were at at the time.

The ones that spring to mind for me are.............


DURAN v Leonard 1 - 1980

ALI v Williams - 1966

ROBINSON v Lamotta 6 - 1951

HAGLER v Hearns - 1985

LEONARD v Duran 2 - 1980

CHAVEZ v Rosario - 1987

WHITAKER v Ramirez 2 - 1989

LOUIS v Schmelling - 1938

TYSON v Spinks - 1988

JONES v Toney - 1993

HOPKINS v Trinidad - 2001

CALZAGHE v Lacy - 2005

MAYWEATHER v Gatti - 2005

MORALES v Ayala - 2002

BARRERA v Hamed - 2001

HAMED v Robinson - 1995

HEARNS v Duran - 1984


I cant think of anymore now.

Whats yours & do you agree with my choices because I was in 2 minds with some of the guys as they had more than 1 great performance, for eg. I couldnt decide between Morales v Ayala, McCullouch, Pacquiao or Hernandez, they were all equally good performances when considering the opponents.

:thumbsup

[Sweet Pea]

ROBINSON v Lamotta 6 - 1951
HAGLER v Hearns - 1985
LEONARD v Duran 2 - 1980
WHITAKER v Ramirez 2 - 1989

HOPKINS v Trinidad - 2001

MAYWEATHER v Gatti - 2005

I disagree with the following choices.

But I definitely agree with Duran's performance against Leonard, aside from the end when he started to slack a bit.

[tommy the hat]

On March 8, 1971, I can't think of many guys who would have defeated Joe Frazier the night he beat Muhammad Ali.

[the cobra]

Originally posted by Sweet Pea
I disagree with the following choices.

But I definitely agree with Duran's performance against Leonard, aside from the end when he started to slack a bit.
Leonard's best night was against Benitez, Mayweather against Corralles, Hagler probably against Sibson. What do you see as the best performance from Robinson, Whitaker, and Hopkins?

I think LaMotta 6 is probably the overall best SRR looked that we have footage of, Whitaker had a few that could be argued, I'd probably say Nelson given the opponent, but I think Ramirez II could be easily argued as his overall best showing, and Hopkins performances against Tarver, Joppy, and Johnson are probably the next choices, but I see his win over Trinidad as his best performance.

[the cobra]

edit

[natonic]

Salvador Sanchez vs Gomez
Donald Curry vs Milt McCrory
Kalambay vs McCallum I
Monzon vs Benvenuti II

[Sweet Pea]

Leonard's best night was against Benitez, Mayweather against Corralles, Hagler probably against Sibson. What do you see as the best performance from Robinson, Whitaker, and Hopkins?Agreed on the first 3 picks.

I think we never really got to see the best of Robinson, even though I agree it's probably the best we have of him on film. Maybe the Gavilan fights would've been his WW peak. I actually thought Whitaker looked better against Haugen and Nelson than against Ramirez in the rematch. I was nevwer as big a fan of his work in that fight as everyone else. He just looked a bit lackadaisical to me, though it does say something that he could afford to take it that easy on that level of fighter. I'd say Hopkins's best win was the Tito win, and he looked brilliant doing it, but I generally think he was at his peak a tad bit earlier than that, say Glen Johnson fight, even though it wasn't as good an overall win at all.

[the cobra]

Originally posted by Sweet Pea
I think we never really got to see the best of Robinson, even though I agree it's probably the best we have of him on film. Maybe the Gavilan fights would've been his WW peak. I actually thought Whitaker looked better against Haugen and Nelson than against Ramirez in the rematch. I was nevwer as big a fan of his work in that fight as everyone else. He just looked a bit lackadaisical to me, though it does say something that he could afford to take it that easy on that level of fighter. I'd say Hopkins's best win was the Tito win, and he looked brilliant doing it, but I generally think he was at his peak a tad bit earlier than that, say Glen Johnson fight, even though it wasn't as good an overall win at all.
It's almost guaranteed that the best performance by Robinson was at welter, but he does look spectacular against LaMotta, and both Gavilan fights are supposed to have been close with Robinson saying they were hsi hardest fights. I don't know how I forgot what Whitaker did to Haugen, that may be the most one-sided decision I've ever seen. I to believe Hopkins' peak was a bit earlier with the Trinidad performance probably being his last in his overall prime (although he still looked about as good in the Joppy fight a year later). Johnson is a good pick for performance, he just looked perfect in that fight, but Trinidad was an overall better fighter when he met Hopkins then Johnson was, so I still hold that as his best showing.

What do you feel was the best performance by Trinidad (Joppy for me) and Olivares (Rose)?

[Sweet Pea]

It's almost guaranteed that the best performance by Robinson was at welter, but he does look spectacular against LaMotta, and both Gavilan fights are supposed to have been close with Robinson saying they were hsi hardest fights. I don't know how I forgot what Whitaker did to Haugen, that may be the most one-sided decision I've ever seen. I to believe Hopkins' peak was a bit earlier with the Trinidad performance probably being his last in his overall prime (although he still looked about as good in the Joppy fight a year later). Johnson is a good pick for performance, he just looked perfect in that fight, but Trinidad was an overall better figther when he met Hopkins then Johnson was, so I still hold that as his best showing.

What do you feel was the best performance by Trinidad (Joppy for me) and Olivares (Rose)?Tito's best performances were probably at 154 for me, maybe his win over Thiam, though he did look great MW against Joppy, which is why I take that win for Hopkins much more seriously than the Oscar win.

The Rose fight is a good choice for Olivares, given how skilled Rose was and how Ruben basically ruined him as a fighter. Ruben at his best was really something, one of the most versatile and skilled of all Mexican boxers.

[the cobra]

Originally posted by Sweet Pea
Tito's best performances were probably at 154 for me, maybe his win over Thiam, though he did look great MW against Joppy, which is why I take that win for Hopkins much more seriously than the Oscar win.

The Rose fight is a good choice for Olivares, given how skilled Rose was and how Ruben basically ruined him as a fighter. Ruben at his best was really something, one of the most versatile and skilled of all Mexican boxers.

Totally agree. At his best Ruben was probably the overall most impressive of all the great Mexican boxers I've seen.

One more question, what's the best performance from Napoles? I personally can't really decide. also, Saldivar, as I haven't seen much of him.

[Sweet Pea]

Totally agree. At his best Ruben was probably the overall most impressive of all the great Mexican boxers I've seen.

One more question, what's the best performance from Napoles? I personally can't really decide.A lot of the footage of him at his true best(135 and 140) is lost, though there are a few of those fights available. Of his WW reign his bouts with Cokes and his one-sided victory over Emile Griffith(albeit a weight drained version) are the best he's looked.

[Bill Butcher]

On March 8, 1971, I can't think of many guys who would have defeated Joe Frazier the night he beat Muhammad Ali.

Fuck... I meant to put that one on the list.... also....

FOREMAN v Frazier I

LEWIS v Rahman II

MARCIANO v Charles II

ARGUELLO v Mancini

[Loewe]

Fighters I disagree with:

HOPKINS - Johnson
MONZON - GRIFFITH I
LEONARD - Benitez
LEWIS - Tyson
MAYWEATHER Jr. - Corrales
CALZAGHE - Kessler

not mentioned fighters:

PATTERSON - Johannson II
Jack JOHNSON - Burns

SCHMELING - Louis I
SCHOLZ - Humez II
MUELLER - Giardello II
DAGGE - Obed
SCHULZ - Foreman
MASKE - Rocchigiani II
ROCCHIGIANI - Maske I (Graziano got robbed in that one)
STURM - Oscar
ABRAHAM - Ikeke

[Bill Butcher]

Fighters I disagree with:

HOPKINS - Johnson
MONZON - GRIFFITH I
LEONARD - Benitez
LEWIS - Tyson
MAYWEATHER Jr. - Corrales
CALZAGHE - Kessler

I disagree too....

I thought HOPKINS was better v Tito & Joppy.

Havent seen enough of MONZON.

I would go for the LEONARD of the Duran rematch but have no probs with the Benitez fight being up there as he clearly outboxed a very gifted boxer in Benitez + got the TKO.

You have to remember how shot Tyson was so I would put the Rahman rematch up there as LEWIS most devastating win, everything considered.

MAYWEATHER was punch perfect v Gatti & I would have that one 1st but unquestionably the Corrales fight is 2nd.

CALZAGHE showed his great adaptability v Kessler who was certainly a better fighter than Lacy but winning 7-5 in rds has to fall short of winning 12-0 in rds especially when Lacy wasnt exactly a bad or a shot fighter, he was on a roll just like Kessler.

:thumbsup

[AlFrancis]

It's almost guaranteed that the best performance by Robinson was at welter, but he does look spectacular against LaMotta, and both Gavilan fights are supposed to have been close with Robinson saying they were hsi hardest fights. I don't know how I forgot what Whitaker did to Haugen, that may be the most one-sided decision I've ever seen. I to believe Hopkins' peak was a bit earlier with the Trinidad performance probably being his last in his overall prime (although he still looked about as good in the Joppy fight a year later). Johnson is a good pick for performance, he just looked perfect in that fight, but Trinidad was an overall better fighter when he met Hopkins then Johnson was, so I still hold that as his best showing.

What do you feel was the best performance by Trinidad (Joppy for me) and Olivares (Rose)?

What about Olivares TKO2 Alan Rudkin?
This was Olivares first defense of his Bantamweight title. Rudkin was No1 contender and had split a decision with Rose earlier that year in Australia and given Harada a fight in Japan. He was only stopped once before this, on a cut eye and was never stopped after it. I think this was Olivares at his absolute peak.

[Matienza]

JCC vs Edwin Rosario

[DINAMITA]

Im talking about fighters on a night were they looked as unbeatable as can be for whatever weight they were at at the time.

The ones that spring to mind for me are.............


DURAN v Leonard 1 - 1980

ALI v Williams - 1966

ROBINSON v Lamotta 6 - 1951

HAGLER v Hearns - 1985

LEONARD v Duran 2 - 1980

CHAVEZ v Rosario - 1987

WHITAKER v Ramirez 2 - 1989

LOUIS v Schmelling - 1938

TYSON v Spinks - 1988

JONES v Toney - 1993

HOPKINS v Trinidad - 2001

CALZAGHE v Lacy - 2005

MAYWEATHER v Gatti - 2005

MORALES v Ayala - 2002

BARRERA v Hamed - 2001

HAMED v Robinson - 1995

HEARNS v Duran - 1984


I cant think of anymore now.

Whats yours & do you agree with my choices because I was in 2 minds with some of the guys as they had more than 1 great performance, for eg. I couldnt decide between Morales v Ayala, McCullouch, Pacquiao or Hernandez, they were all equally good performances when considering the opponents.

:thumbsup

Jones v Toney was in 1994 amigo, and if Jones looked unbeatable at 168 that night (which I agree he did), then Joe Calzaghe cannot have looked unbeatable in 2005 at 168 as well - it makes sense to only have 1 answer to this question per weight division, as it is paradoxical to say two supermiddles looked unbeatable - as one must have been able to beat the other. I say Jones 1994 dominates Calzaghe 2005. Toney was far far better than Jeff Lacy, and Jones was a far far better fighter than Calzaghe.

I don't agree with your choices of Mayweather v Gatti and absolutely definitely NOT Hamed v Robinson!!! :yikes

due to the standard of opposition. Of course Hamed looked amazing beating up a pub fighter, that proves nothing. IMO Hamed shouldn't be included in this discussion as the flaws in his game were always glaringly obvious to the shrewd boxing fan, it's just that he never fought anyone good enough to expose them til he fought Barrera.

Re Mayweather v Gatti, I think Mayweather v Corrales would be a far better choice. Gatti was almost shot when he fought Mayweather, and not great at that weight anyway. Corrales was no.5 p4p at the time PBF fought him, and little Floyd produced a stunning domination job.


Other than that, good choices, except the thing about choosing two invincibles at the one weight, but hey it's your choice and your thread, so here are a couple I would offer:

PRYOR v Arguello I - an unstoppable machine
PACQUIAO v Barrera I - a beast in human's clothing
HOLYFIELD v Qawi II - greatest cruiserweight ever
LOPEZ v Sorjatorung - Lopez at peak of his minimumweight powers

[kickbxn5]

You should add

Holmes-Cooney
Qawi-Leon Spinks

[SteveO]

ALI v Williams - 1966 Who can't look great against a washed guy who actually shot a year or so earlier by the cops?


I can't believe nobody said Buster Douglas vs Tyson. Douglas looked pretty damn good in that fight but it could of been because anybody who didnt fall from the first punch aganist Tyson looked good.

Well, the thread is GREAT fighters on their best nights.

I wouldn't call Douglas a GREAT fighter.

[Bill Butcher]

Jones v Toney was in 1994 amigo, and if Jones looked unbeatable at 168 that night (which I agree he did), then Joe Calzaghe cannot have looked unbeatable in 2005 at 168 as well - it makes sense to only have 1 answer to this question per weight division, as it is paradoxical to say two supermiddles looked unbeatable - as one must have been able to beat the other. I say Jones 1994 dominates Calzaghe 2005. Toney was far far better than Jeff Lacy, and Jones was a far far better fighter than Calzaghe.

I don't agree with your choices of Mayweather v Gatti and absolutely definitely NOT Hamed v Robinson!!! :yikes


Re Mayweather v Gatti, I think Mayweather v Corrales would be a far better choice.

PRYOR v Arguello I - an unstoppable machine
PACQUIAO v Barrera I - a beast in human's clothing

I wasnt sure about the exact yr of some fights, your dead right about Jones/Toney being in 1994 (the fight was actually on my birthday & I still put the wrong yr :nut )

Regarding the Calzaghe/Lacy/Jones/Toney/168 thing, I just meant `looked as unbeatable as THEY THEMSELVES have ever looked`, I didnt mean they were unbeatable to the point that nobody in their peak could beat them - I too would favour 94 Jones over 05 JC but I see a very competitive fight going to the cards & I wouldnt be completely shocked - suprised yes, shocked no - if Calzaghe won.

No probs with Corrales being ahead of Gatti for FMJs best display, I thought FMJ was punch perfect v Gatti & he hadnt even been at 140 for that long, he looked more unbeatable albeit vs a past prime Gatti.

Steve Robinson was a good world champion - was he Morales or Barrera, no but who were ? - & going into the fight A LOT of people picked the more experienced & bigger Robinson, that was the best Naz there ever was whether you like him or hate him. He was amazing that night - his debut at FWT too.
That version of Hamed would beat anything other than a very peak Barrera IMO.

You might be right about Pryor`s peak being vs Arguello but it was too close a fight vs a past prime AA so I left that one out.

I agree with Manny vs MAB in 03 at 126, he was all over him like a bad rash - I loved that fight :yep

It would have been good to see that version of Pac vs the Barrera who beat Naz, awesome.

Hope Ive covered everything, cheers.

:thumbsup

[young griffo]

Jones v Toney was in 1994 amigo, and if Jones looked unbeatable at 168 that night (which I agree he did), then Joe Calzaghe cannot have looked unbeatable in 2005 at 168 as well - it makes sense to only have 1 answer to this question per weight division, as it is paradoxical to say two supermiddles looked unbeatable - as one must have been able to beat the other. I say Jones 1994 dominates Calzaghe 2005. Toney was far far better than Jeff Lacy, and Jones was a far far better fighter than Calzaghe.

I don't agree with your choices of Mayweather v Gatti and absolutely definitely NOT Hamed v Robinson!!! :yikes

due to the standard of opposition. Of course Hamed looked amazing beating up a pub fighter, that proves nothing. IMO Hamed shouldn't be included in this discussion as the flaws in his game were always glaringly obvious to the shrewd boxing fan, it's just that he never fought anyone good enough to expose them til he fought Barrera.

Re Mayweather v Gatti, I think Mayweather v Corrales would be a far better choice. Gatti was almost shot when he fought Mayweather, and not great at that weight anyway. Corrales was no.5 p4p at the time PBF fought him, and little Floyd produced a stunning domination job.


Other than that, good choices, except the thing about choosing two invincibles at the one weight, but hey it's your choice and your thread, so here are a couple I would offer:

PRYOR v Arguello I - an unstoppable machine
PACQUIAO v Barrera I - a beast in human's clothing
HOLYFIELD v Qawi II - greatest cruiserweight ever
LOPEZ v Sorjatorung - Lopez at peak of his minimumweight powers
I agree with everything you write Sir.:good

Another couple that warrant consideration are
Curry vs McCory-Curry achieved greatness only once and this fight was it.
Wright vs Trinidad-An absolute exhibition by one of the modern day greats.
Frazier vs Ellis-Joe fought like a left hooking demon.
Fenech vs Callejas-Fenech brutalizes a so-called danger opponent.His career peak.

[red cobra]

What about Olivares TKO2 Alan Rudkin?
This was Olivares first defense of his Bantamweight title. Rudkin was No1 contender and had split a decision with Rose earlier that year in Australia and given Harada a fight in Japan. He was only stopped once before this, on a cut eye and was never stopped after it. I think this was Olivares at his absolute peak.
Yes, Olivares was at his very best. He was a power punching sharp-shooter that night.