Carlos M vs SRR

[JM22]

How will it go who win's and why?

[the cobra]

Monzon by decision, close fight but SRR has a good amount of problems getting inside Monzon's jab and reach.

[CottoDaBodykill]

Monzon by decision, close fight but SRR has a good amount of problems getting inside Monzon's jab and reach.yup ...and that cold callus stare too

[DaveTheWave]

Monzon too slow and one-dimensional. Ray might hurt Carlos as well. Monzon just not busy enough and too slow.

Robinson W15

[Sweet Pea]

Monzon too slow and one-dimensional. Ray might hurt Carlos as well. Monzon just not busy enough and too slow.

Robinson W15:patsch

[JM22]

Monzon too slow and one-dimensional. Ray might hurt Carlos as well. Monzon just not busy enough and too slow.

Robinson W15:lol:

[laxpdx]

Robinson MD or UD. An all-time great MW vs. arguably the best ever.

[rekcutnevets]

Carlos Mencia is a funny guy, but Joe Rogan has pretty much proven him to be a joke thief. That being said, Mind of Mencia looks to be a better shown than Ray Robinson's song and dance bit.

Just my personal opinion.

[Loewe]

Carlos Monzon by late stoppage. Robbinson has good success early on but get´s weared down and the ref steps in to save him after he eats several right hands unanswered in the 14th. Fight of the year candidate.

[JohnThomas1]

SRR at his absolute best via UD.

[mcvey]

How will it go who win's and why?
Harry Wiley who was a long time corner man of Ray's said he had problems witrh tall guys,and Mike Tyson for one beleives Monzon would be able to drop the right over Ray's left enough times to get a dec or force a late stoppage.Personallly I go back and forth on this one Robinson was unbeatable at Welter,imo,but Middle?The problem for me is Monzon looks so unspectacular ,yet is so chillingly effective .

[teeto]

Thats it, really dominant Carlos was. Whatever the criticisms of him, his effectiveness cannot be questioned. This may sound far-fetched, but sometimes it simply looks a case of it doesnt matter what his opponent does, its what he does that controls the tempo, and ultimately result of the fight. That said, Robinson is still a decent shout for the best h2h even at mw, provided he is on song. Its easy for people to pick Monzon on the basis of Robinson being past his prime at the weight, yet valid, its more interesting to pick him on his best MW night, this is a man that is a force of nature. Stylistically though, i do think Monzon has a great chance, pressure behind accurate jabs etc. And immensely strong, this is someone that i could possibly pick over Robinson. And what a good insight by Tyson you mentioned there, about the right hand dropping over the top, it is likely that Robinson would be behind on points late in the fight, Robinson turning it around against this menace is not too likely (this is Sugar Ray Robinson though!!). I think Robinson is underrated as a long range boxer personally, if we are going to be objective and say that we must look at the effectiveness of Monzon, then it is only fair to do the same with Robinson, when he boxed somewhat exclusively around the ring at times, his footwork was of the ilk of a Napoles almost, and his jab mightnt have looked spectacular, but it shut opponents out completely and did the scoriing. Though this is possibly an argument or a case being made in vein (right spelling in this context?) considering the opponent, admittedly.

Maybe Robinson would need to try and come out and try and blitz his slower opponent with the in and out movement he would show at 147, can it be done? Not too sure, though i would like to say yes, this is not simply a great MW he's facing such as LaMotta, Fulmer or Turpin (underrated), this is the very elite, history's cream of the crop. Harder to make a decision than most will think, but i'll take Monzon on the strength of my post which has just unravelled before me!

I dont mind people taking Robinson, but please make the decision for the right reasons.

[teeto]

EDIT- i actually meant to quote McVey's post in that.

[rekcutnevets]

Oh, M was for Monzon. Sometimes I'm horrible at these games.

Everyone is a comedian while drinking.

I think that the difference in the fight would be Robinson's hand speed. This speed would allow him to beat Monzon to the punch most of the time, and allow him to win most of the rounds. I almost envision a Mosley and De la Hoya kind of match-up.

Robinson was only stopped once in his extra long career, and that can be argued to being under the circumstance he was fighting in as much as the fight itself. I don't forsee Monzon getting a stoppage.

Robinson UD

[la-califa]

Not sure on this one, But just pointing out. Monzon had little difficulty with a smooth boxing Welterweight Champion in Jose Napoles.

[mcvey]

Not sure on this one, But just pointing out. Monzon had little difficulty with a smooth boxing Welterweight Champion in Jose Napoles.
Napoles was 34 ,on the way down ,and never more than a big Lightweight ,facing a prime BIG Middle.

[PowerPuncher]

I go with SRR's greater speed, arsenal, skill, technique, movement and timing to win a hard fought 10-5 or 9-6decision. But it has to be the pre-1952 version of SRR

[dpw417]

Thats it, really dominant Carlos was. Whatever the criticisms of him, his effectiveness cannot be questioned. This may sound far-fetched, but sometimes it simply looks a case of it doesnt matter what his opponent does, its what he does that controls the tempo, and ultimately result of the fight. That said, Robinson is still a decent shout for the best h2h even at mw, provided he is on song. Its easy for people to pick Monzon on the basis of Robinson being past his prime at the weight, yet valid, its more interesting to pick him on his best MW night, this is a man that is a force of nature. Stylistically though, i do think Monzon has a great chance, pressure behind accurate jabs etc. And immensely strong, this is someone that i could possibly pick over Robinson. And what a good insight by Tyson you mentioned there, about the right hand dropping over the top, it is likely that Robinson would be behind on points late in the fight, Robinson turning it around against this menace is not too likely (this is Sugar Ray Robinson though!!). I think Robinson is underrated as a long range boxer personally, if we are going to be objective and say that we must look at the effectiveness of Monzon, then it is only fair to do the same with Robinson, when he boxed somewhat exclusively around the ring at times, his footwork was of the ilk of a Napoles almost, and his jab mightnt have looked spectacular, but it shut opponents out completely and did the scoriing. Though this is possibly an argument or a case being made in vein (right spelling in this context?) considering the opponent, admittedly.

Maybe Robinson would need to try and come out and try and blitz his slower opponent with the in and out movement he would show at 147, can it be done? Not too sure, though i would like to say yes, this is not simply a great MW he's facing such as LaMotta, Fulmer or Turpin (underrated), this is the very elite, history's cream of the crop. Harder to make a decision than most will think, but i'll take Monzon on the strength of my post which has just unravelled before me!

I dont mind people taking Robinson, but please make the decision for the right reasons.
Well thought out and balanced post. ie. unbiased.
I'll take Robinson myself, by narrow decision. But I can see how Monzon gives him extreme difficulty.

[red cobra]

Monzon would have decisioned Robinson over 15, with no knockdowns, although both men would be rattled at times.

[JohnThomas1]

Napoles was 34 ,on the way down ,and never more than a big Lightweight ,facing a prime BIG Middle.

Sounds so much like Duran - Hagler when put like that. Napoles is a great fighter but yes, he had loads agaoinst him here really.

[teeto]

Well thought out and balanced post. ie. unbiased.
I'll take Robinson myself, by narrow decision. But I can see how Monzon gives him extreme difficulty.
Thanks for the compliment there, it really can be seen either way i believe, harder to decide im thinking as i consider the strong points of each fighter more and more.

[Waynegrade]

I just can`t see anyone beating Robinson, at his best 147/160. You could even say that he was past his prime when he was at 160 in the 50`s. He had a great chin, tremendous hand and foot speed. KO power in each fist, and a ton of ring savvy. And he could fight and win a war when he had to. Monzon was a great fighter. And deceptively good, he made it look so effortless. But, in Robinson, he would find himself in with someone, who could do it all. Robinson breaks him down, either Ud, or late rd stoppage. Face it, pound for pound was invented for the Sugar man...

[enquirer]

Monzon was posessed of iron chin,great physical strength,stamina,height,size,the stamin of a horse,unshakeable will,accurate hurtful grinding punches and great strategy. This is not jake la motta we are talking about here,this is the greatest 160 man of them all. Robinson is not beating this man at 160. Robinson had problems with big strong guys who pressured him (la motta,turpin,etc.) and monzon is leagues above those fighters. People always seem to think of the 147 robinson but this is 160 not 147....
Monzon UD 15 or late stoppage...

[Loewe]

Monzon was posessed of iron chin,great physical strength,stamina,height,size,the stamin of a horse,unshakeable will,accurate hurtful grinding punches and great strategy. This is not jake la motta we are talking about here,this is the greatest 160 man of them all. Robinson is not beating this man at 160. Robinson had problems with big strong guys who pressured him (la motta,turpin,etc.) and monzon is leagues above those fighters. People always seem to think of the 147 robinson but this is 160 not 147....
Monzon UD 15 or late stoppage...

Very good post. Monzon just is better than any other 160 pound fighter ever.

[Ezzard]

Monzon, but only just... I just think that Robinson fought hard bouts with lesser fighters even at his 160 prime. He'd raise his game for Carlos but Monzon would win a close one or come out in top in a series of fights.

[Holmes' Jab]

Robinson: close, but clear UD.