Sonny Liston v. Sam Peter

[SteveO]

I know, I know...:patsch


But who picks Sam?

[tommy the hat]

Sonny Liston would bludgeon Sam Peter with that jab, and probably get rid of him by the 7th round.

[Muchmoore]

Liston takes him out around 5. I see no possible way Peter can win, he probably doesn't even land anything of serious significance and the whole while he'd look like a bobblehead doll with his head being snapped backward.

If you want to see people pick Peter, post this in the general section as there's always idiots in there :lol:

[Russell]

Sonny can get him out of there with his kind of power, of course.

Peter's chin confuses me, anyway. Some of the shots he took from Wladimir were ungodly, and the man barely blinked. They seemed to psyche him up if anything.

Going on that showing alone his chin is steel. Factor in other showings after that, not so much.

The Vitali fight is going to be very, very telling.

[SteveO]

Sonny can get him out of there with his kind of power, of course.

Peter's chin confuses me, anyway. Some of the shots he took from Wladimir were ungodly, and the man barely blinked. They seemed to psyche him up if anything.

Going on that showing alone his chin is steel. Factor in other showings after that, not so much.

The Vitali fight is going to be very, very telling.

That's true. He's taken some punches from Wlad...yet McCline of all people floors him thrice as well.

It will be telling for both fighters, that's for damn sure.

[Loewe]

Liston takes him out around 5. I see no possible way Peter can win, he probably doesn't even land anything of serious significance and the whole while he'd look like a bobblehead doll with his head being snapped backward.

If you want to see people pick Peter, post this in the general section as there's always idiots in there


So shouldn't you be in that room MuchMoore?

You still haven´t learned to quote :-(

Well, the answer is obvious still a fight I would like to see, Peter with all that talk before and Liston punishing him for that in the ring. Would be fun :lol:

[mcvey]

I know, I know...:patsch


But who picks Sam?
There are probably 3 posters on here who would ,I think most people could name them.Peter is a very poor Liston ,without the boxing ability,clean power or durability,a rabbit punching clubber who was dropped several times by an average puncher.

[lfsdan]

No one that is even remotley knowledgable about boxing would favor Sam Peter in this fight. Sonny Liston would tko him within 6 rounds in spectacular fashion.

[Rise Above]

No one that is even remotley knowledgable about boxing would favor Sam Peter in this fight. Sonny Liston would tko him within 6 rounds in spectacular fashion.

:yep

[PowerPuncher]

Liston's far more skilled, but this may boil down to strength/power/chin and Peter's natural size and steroid use make him much the strongest man Liston's faced.

All the same Listons compact powerpunching, jab and combinations should be much more effective to Peter's wild telegraphed swings

[fists of fury]

Liston beats Peter like a red-headed stepchild.

[heehoo]

Liston snaps Peter's head back repeatedly with his flagpole of a jab, then lands a 1-2 combination, and it's goodnight Peter in the 6th round.

[Jazzo]

The bias shown in this thread is absurd.

Liston may well win in this imaginary Match-Up, but there is no need to over excite yourselves.

[lfsdan]

Peter is one of the top 10 worst hw beltholders of all time. I don't think anyone will argue that.

[BIG DEE]

BIG DEE HERE= Liston by early rd KO as Sonny will make Peter pay dearly for stepping in the ring with him. Peter may be bigger but Liston is the faster man by far. Some of the younger poster will disagree with this statement but it`s true. Liston only looked slow next to Ali who next to Gene Tunney had the fastest feet in heavyweight history and his hands were in the top 5 champions in that respect. The others with hand speed close to Ali`s were Floyd Patterson ( Chuvalo and Cooper thought Patterson had the faster hands ), Joe Louis , Gene Tunney , Mike Tyson. I will add also to this list a
late model champion that was not a world champion but a 1/4 champion
in this day and age as I do not consider anybody to be world champion
unless they are undisputed. Roy Jones as his hands are to be placed in there also as they were the fastest in the last 30 years at the heavyweight championship level. Liston when he got throwing punches at a target he knew he could hit was quite fast in his combinations. If you don`t believe me
get a look at some of Listons training films of him hitting the speed bag and
heavy bag. Listons combinations on the heavy bag are impressive in their
speed and power. It`s the speed thats shocking though. Liston although
6' 1" tall had a 84" reach against Ali he had to look and chase the fastest
footed heavyweight of all time but with Peter he dosen`t have to do this as Peter will be right there too be hit and hit hard. Liston KO within 4 rds maybe earlier.

[mr. magoo]

Liston must clearly be chosen as the favorite here based on his proven performances against quality opposition, along with his notable skills on film. I don't however feel that this has to be an early round slaughtering as some are making it out to be. Sam Peter though crude, has a solid chin that has yet to fail him, along with a reasonable ( but not great ), amount of punching power, and the proven ability to go the distance. Additionally, he well may have been one of the largest and strongest opponents that Sonny ever met.

I think Peter's slow moving and plotting style, along with poor defense would make him an easy target for Liston's missle of a jab. Sam would also eat a lot of hard right hands in this fight. At times however, Sonny would get over confident, thinking that Peter is finished, and go in for the kill only to be met with resisitance as Peter would hit him back with some heavy handed shots. In the end, I think Sonny takes him out somewhere between rounds 7-9. Make no mistake about it though, it would not be an easy match for Liston...

[Mendoza]

Peter is one of the top 10 worst hw beltholders of all time. I don't think anyone will argue that.
Really?

I'll name ten worse ( heavy belt ) holders for you:

Marvin Hart
Jimmy Braddock
Ernie Terell
Jimmy Eillis
Leon Spinks
John Tate
Mike Spinks
Fransicso Damiani
Herrbie Hide
Henry Akinwande
John Ruiz
Sergi Lyachovich
Shannon Briggs

If you disagree with 2-3, no worries, I named 13.

I'm sure I could name some more.

I think Liston at his best would defeat Peter, but it would be a very interesting fight.

Sonny had some issues when things did not go his way, and Peter would not go away easy.

[Russell]

Really?

I'll name ten worse ( heavy belt ) holders for you:

Marvin Hart
Jimmy Braddock
Ernie Terell
Jimmy Eillis
Leon Spinks
John Tate
Mike Spinks
Fransicso Damiani
Herrbie Hide
Henry Akinwande
John Ruiz
Sergi Lyachovich
Shannon Briggs

If you disagree with 2-3, no worries, I named 13.

I'm sure I could name some more.

I think Liston at his best would defeat Peter, but it would be a very interesting fight.

Sonny had some issues when things did not go his way, and Peter would not go away easy.

Oh yes, terrible fighters them. The entire lot! :patsch

[mr. magoo]

Really?

I'll name ten worse ( heavy belt ) holders for you:

Marvin Hart
Jimmy Braddock
Ernie Terell
Jimmy Eillis
Leon Spinks
John Tate
Mike Spinks
Fransicso Damiani
Herrbie Hide
Henry Akinwande
John Ruiz
Sergi Lyachovich
Shannon Briggs

If you disagree with 2-3, no worries, I named 13.

I'm sure I could name some more.

I think Liston at his best would defeat Peter, but it would be a very interesting fight.

Sonny had some issues when things did not go his way, and Peter would not go away easy.

Personally, I don't know how Michael Spinks makes that list and Peter doesn't.. Sure, he had very few fights at heavyweight and lost in 1 round to Tyson, but I think taking a win over a shot Holmes, beats the livin' shit out of having a win over an even more deteriorated Maskaev and Toney......And as for Ellis making the list, what in the hell kind of comp record does Peter have that would top wins over Floyd Patterson, Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Leotis Martin, and George Chuvalo.. There's no way Peter has a better collection of wins than that...

[Mendoza]

Personally, I don't know how Michael Spinks makes that list and Peter doesn't.. Sure, he had very few fights at heavyweight and lost in 1 round to Tyson, but I think taking a win over a shot Holmes, beats the livin' shit out of having a win over an even more deteriorated Maskaev and Toney......And as for Ellis making the list, what in the hell kind of comp record does Peter have that would top wins over Floyd Patterson, Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Leotis Martin, and George Chuvalo.. There's no way Peter has a better collection of wins than that...
So you kicked out two names of the 13 I listed. Personally I think Peter beats both Ellis and Spinks, and is a better heavyweight in the ring, which should not be confused with more skills than a blown up pound for pound type of fighter.

Peter passed Mike Bentt, Bruce Seldon, and has likely passed Oleg Maskeav. I think he is even or ahead with Coetzee right now, with many years left in his career.

Peter is better than at least 15 alphabet or world champions.

[mr. magoo]

=Mendoza]So you kicked out two names of the 13 I listed.

Didn't take the time to give most of the list any real thought, and with all due respect, it doesn't appear as though you did either.

Personally I think Peter beats both Ellis and Spinks, and is a better heavyweight in the ring,

That is a matter of opinion, and rating fighters on the assumption of one beating the other in a fantasy matchup is horribly flawed way of assigning ratings...I prefer to go by credentials, and Peter's comp list does not warrant being rated above those guys..


which should not be confused with more skills than a blown up pound for pound type of fighter.


What do you mean by this? Frankly, I think that for Ellis and Spinks to do what they did given that they weren't indigenous to the division speaks volumes. I can't see Peter being a better fighter either at heavyweight, nor on a pound for pound basis. What Spinks did at lightheavyweight, Peter could not do in a million years at heavyweight or any other division... And talk about blown up? How much excess weight is that fat ass lugging around with him? His conditioning is horrible for a fighter who supposedly trains under modern standards.



Peter passed Mike Bentt, Bruce Seldon, and has likely passed Oleg Maskeav. I think he is even or ahead with Coetzee right now, with many years left in his career.


Passing Bent and Seldon don't mean jack. Seldon was strategically steared into an alphabet position by Don King, so that he could be easy pickings for a returning Tyson. ( Seldon was cought on film laying down in that fight by the way, which only helps my case. ) He was no champion, and nor was an 11 fight Bent who briefly held the WBO. As for Coetzee and Maskaev. He may be close, but I don't see him as having passed them yet. Big "O" certainly has faced better comp by far than Peter has, as had Coetzee.



Peter is better than at least 15 alphabet or world champions.


15 sounds a tad high to me. Frankly, I think the vast majority of the 80's alpha champs are ahead of him such as Weaver, Tubbs, Witherspoon, Berbick, Thomas, Tucker and a few others.

[Polymath]

There are probably 3 posters on here who would ,I think most people could name them.Peter is a very poor Liston ,without the boxing ability,clean power or durability,a rabbit punching clubber who was dropped several times by an average puncher.

Good point, Sam Peters style is boxer/puncher, ableit a crude one.

Peter/Liston? :lol:

[Loewe]

Marvin Hart - that guy has a win over Jack Johnson and was THE champ. That´s more than Peter will ever accomplish.
Jimmy Braddock - Jimmy Braddock beat better fighters and was THE champ. That´s more than Peter will ever accomplish.
Ernie Terell - beat better fighters, namely Williams, Folley, Foster, Machen, Chuvalo ... not even close
Jimmy Eillis - beat better fighters, namely Bonavena, Quarry, arguable Patterson, Chuvalo
Leon Spinks - I agree
John Tate - about even
Mike Spinks - no way, beating past prime Holmes and Cooney and beeing THE champ means more than Peter did or will do.
Fransicso Damiani - I agree
Herrbie Hide - I agree
Henry Akinwande - I agree
John Ruiz - Ruiz beat better fighters, was a top contender or a beltholder for a decade. 2-time beltholder. Peter isn´t even close.
Sergi Lyachovich - I agree but it´s close.
Shannon Briggs - Briggs wins over Lyachovich and Mercer are better than anything Peter did. But it´s close
Oleg Maskaev - Could be argued but I think his two wins over Rahman are better than any win on Peter´s record.

So, there are 5 from your list, perhaps 6. Peter is one of the 10 worst beltholders.

[Muchmoore]

Marvin Hart - that guy has a win over Jack Johnson and was THE champ. That´s more than Peter will ever accomplish.
Jimmy Braddock - Jimmy Braddock beat better fighters and was THE champ. That´s more than Peter will ever accomplish.
Ernie Terell - beat better fighters, namely Williams, Folley, Foster, Machen, Chuvalo ... not even close
Jimmy Eillis - beat better fighters, namely Bonavena, Quarry, arguable Patterson, Chuvalo
Leon Spinks - I agree
John Tate - about even
Mike Spinks - no way, beating past prime Holmes and Cooney and beeing THE champ means more than Peter did or will do.
Fransicso Damiani - I agree
Herrbie Hide - I agree
Henry Akinwande - I agree
John Ruiz - Ruiz beat better fighters, was a top contender or a beltholder for a decade. 2-time beltholder. Peter isn´t even close.
Sergi Lyachovich - I agree but it´s close.
Shannon Briggs - Briggs wins over Lyachovich and Mercer are better than anything Peter did. But it´s close
Oleg Maskaev - Could be argued but I think his two wins over Rahman are better than any win on Peter´s record.

So, there are 5 from your list, perhaps 6. Peter is one of the 10 worst beltholders.

:good

If Peter can string together a couple more wins though he passes a few on the list though such as Maskaev, Tate, perhaps Spinks.

[McGrain]

If you disagree with 2-3, no worries, I named 13.

Disagree STRONGLY with 2 and 3, but it's a fair list, Peter is becoming undertaed on the board.

[Loewe]

:good

If Peter can string together a couple more wins though he passes a few on the list though such as Maskaev, Tate, perhaps Spinks.

Yep, even when he beats Williams he will surpasses Tate, Briggs and Maskaev.

[he grant]

Liston by KO in about three or four ...

[KOTF]

It depends on the shape Peter's in. An in-shape Peter loses in the late rounds.

An out-of-shape Peter, like the one that showed up against Toney I, Vitali, and Chambers, well we get the "THAT WHALE HAS BEEN HARPOONED!"

[mcvey]

I know, I know...:patsch


But who picks Sam?

Not even his Mother.:patsch

[doug.ie]

peter sickened me against vitali....awful awful showing....
to think he was wbc heavyweight champion...and to have no heart at all...nothing...
bad bad champion

[jaffay]

First thought that it could be like fights with Cleveland Williams - same ending, some kd's

But I think that Peter is to slow to be competitive with Sonny. Slow pace makes Liston happy.

[janitor]

This fight is a horible mismatch.

Frankly I am far from convinced that Peter would have got past the teir of fighters beneath Liston.

If Eddie Machen and Cleavland Williams are looking down right now they are probably wondering why they couldn't have come allong in an era where there were beltholders like that.