View Full Version : Sanchez out, Koscheck in
Per Sherdog, Koscheck will now be facing Alves at UFC 90.
jimmie
10-13-2008, 09:51 PM
Goes from fight of the night to probable snoozefest.
Beebs
10-13-2008, 09:52 PM
You haven't seen Kos' recent fights, hes been entertaining as hell, this is going to be an amazing fight.
You haven't seen Kos' recent fights, hes been entertaining as hell, this is going to be an amazing fight.
Yeah, Kos is a great replacement. I was really looking forward to Alves/Sanchez, but I think it'll still be a competitive, good fight.
jimmie
10-13-2008, 09:59 PM
You haven't seen Kos' recent fights, hes been entertaining as hell, this is going to be an amazing fight.
The Dustin Hazlett fight was beautiful but Chris Lytle that was boring although I expected that fight to go that way. Hopefully Koscheck comes out like he did vs Hazlett instead of that very low risk style he usually fights.
ufoalf
10-13-2008, 10:14 PM
You haven't seen Kos' recent fights, hes been entertaining as hell, this is going to be an amazing fight.
Yea, Kos' upped his game surprisingly a lot. I don't think he's as exciting as Sanches(at least for me) but he's not the same guy as he was on tough at all.
sugarngold
10-13-2008, 10:28 PM
That' too bad. I was looking forward to Sanchez/Alves.
codeman99998
10-14-2008, 12:55 AM
I think Kos brings more of a fight than Sanchez. Seeing that this fight might be for the next #1 contender spot, I think Kos deserves it more.
chimba
10-14-2008, 01:00 AM
Very disappointed..I was intrigued at how Sanchez would deal with Alves standup.
This is a perfect matchup for Kos...Take Alves down at will and control the fight..might even do some GnP damage...GSP/Kos 2 if GSP gets by Penn
alewaboy52
10-14-2008, 01:33 AM
ill be honest i really reallylike bj penn, want him to win, feel he will win, know he will win, but other than a rematch with hughes theres nothing interesting for him at 170, i think gsp in a rematch with kos or a matchup with alves would probably be better
chimba
10-14-2008, 01:37 AM
ill be honest i really reallylike bj penn, want him to win, feel he will win, know he will win, but other than a rematch with hughes theres nothing interesting for him at 170, i think gsp in a rematch with kos or a matchup with alves would probably be better
BJs my favorite fighter..let him try to achieve greatness and try to beat GSP..When he does his legacy is secured as the best ever
then he can move down to face Kenflo..I know Kenflo has very little chance but I'm still intrigued by it
As for Kos/GSP..Im very excited to see this...I feel Kos is the only guy at WW that can match GSP athletically...as far as Alves..I see GSP taking him down and stopping him
ufoalf
10-14-2008, 01:38 AM
BJs my favorite fighter..let him try to achieve greatness and try to beat GSP..When he does his legacy is secured as the best ever
Not a chance.
chimba
10-14-2008, 01:51 AM
Not a chance.
why not? ..there has been no fighter ever in MMA to beat two consensus bigger p4p#1 (Hughes and GSP)fighters in their primes and beat them. No one has a challenge as big as Penn does in GSP.. Unless GSP challenges Silva.
BJ is a natural born fighter fulfilling his prophecy ... not many people can deny him as the best
Its a big if though
ufoalf
10-14-2008, 02:06 AM
He lost to both of them. All he'll be doing is avenging his loss. I guess if we get so excited about avenging losses Fedor is screwed huh?
chimba
10-14-2008, 02:16 AM
He lost to both of them. All he'll be doing is avenging his loss. I guess if we get so excited about avenging losses Fedor is screwed huh?
Fedor is the greatest HW ever and one of the the 4 considered as top p4p but being undefeated is not the only key to being the greatest..if that is your criteria than there is nothing more that can be done..
My criteria is simple..If BJ beats GSP..He would have beaten two of the greatest fighters p4p in the history of MMA..who coincidentally has 20 pounds of muscle on him...two weightclass champ as well...along with the natural skills and technique..Id say he will be remembered as the greatest
ufoalf
10-14-2008, 02:37 AM
No go, when you're 14-4 this shit aint gona cut it. To be called the greatest, what I'm looking for is indisputable consistency in dominance throughout the career. Only one falls under this category right now is Fedor.
Goes from fight of the night to probable snoozefest.
I'm happy with it. Makes for an interesting fight.
Wilhelm
10-14-2008, 04:30 PM
I bet Alves isn't happy about this. He's a ridiculous monster of a 170 lber (if he ever actually makes the weight) and Sanchez could probably make 155 if he wanted to. Alves will have to be able to deal with getting taken down and have to deal with a stronger guy on top of him.
And Kos/GSP II would go the same as the first one.
I bet Alves isn't happy about this. He's a ridiculous monster of a 170 lber (if he ever actually makes the weight) and Sanchez could probably make 155 if he wanted to. Alves will have to be able to deal with getting taken down and have to deal with a stronger guy on top of him.
And Kos/GSP II would go the same as the first one.
It's going to be an awesome fight. Interesting style match-up. Kos has been using his striking a lot lately, more than his Wrestling. I don't think that would be a good idea in this fight. Josh should use his strikes to set up a takedown. Ground n' pound Thiago into a decision.
Beebs
10-14-2008, 08:15 PM
I bet Alves isn't happy about this. He's a ridiculous monster of a 170 lber (if he ever actually makes the weight) and Sanchez could probably make 155 if he wanted to. Alves will have to be able to deal with getting taken down and have to deal with a stronger guy on top of him.
And Kos/GSP II would go the same as the first one.
Definatly a harder fight for Alves.
Kos might work on his wrestling a little harder if he fought GSP again, I think he underestimated GSP's wrestling (I know I did) but yea, he would still almost surely lose.
alewaboy52
10-15-2008, 02:53 AM
Definatly a harder fight for Alves.
Kos might work on his wrestling a little harder if he fought GSP again, I think he underestimated GSP's wrestling (I know I did) but yea, he would still almost surely lose.
i think the second fight would be way different by that i mean i believe kos underestimated gsp's wrestling thats why he was dominated the outcome might be the same but i believe kos' wrestling is still way better than gsp, if anything gsp will use his superior jits and striking to beat kos not his wrestling
i think the second fight would be way different by that i mean i believe kos underestimated gsp's wrestling thats why he was dominated the outcome might be the same but i believe kos' wrestling is still way better than gsp, if anything gsp will use his superior jits and striking to beat kos not his wrestling
Kos is a better Wrestler. But Georges uses his Wrestling beautifully in MMA. That's the difference.
BewareofDawg
10-15-2008, 10:03 AM
If Penn steps up and beats GSP he cannot be denied that he is the most naturally gifted and most skilled fighter ever. He definitely isn't the most consisitent, that belongs to Fedor but nobody can deny that he is the most "Capable". He is a natural 155lber and he would then be not only the LW champ but also a 2 time WW Champ, winning the belt legitimately from the Greates Champion in UFC History (Hughes) and maybe the most gifted and dynamic fighter in UFC history (St Pierre). Sorry but him beating St Pierre is a greater accomplishment than anything Fedor has done. Could be due to lack of oppportunity for Fedor, but still.
québecwarrior
10-15-2008, 10:54 AM
I wouldnt put Penn as the best ever if he beat St. PIerre..He would need to beat like A.Silva too and I would give him that crown.
GSP had the potential to be the greatest ever and could has the resume to do so. I might be his biggest fan here or AJAX, but his loss to Serra is gonna always to tarnish his legacy. The greatest ever can't be TKO in round round vs Serra lucky shot or no. He is gonna probably have a better resume than Fedor when his career is over. But Fedor, with the fact that he never lost, vs good opposition, in MMA, is just AMAZING.
chimba
10-15-2008, 11:28 AM
If Penn steps up and beats GSP he cannot be denied that he is the most naturally gifted and most skilled fighter ever. He definitely isn't the most consisitent, that belongs to Fedor but nobody can deny that he is the most "Capable". He is a natural 155lber and he would then be not only the LW champ but also a 2 time WW Champ, winning the belt legitimately from the Greates Champion in UFC History (Hughes) and maybe the most gifted and dynamic fighter in UFC history (St Pierre). Sorry but him beating St Pierre is a greater accomplishment than anything Fedor has done. Could be due to lack of oppportunity for Fedor, but still.
Agreed 100%..this is a huge IF but stranger things have happened..
Beebs
10-15-2008, 11:40 AM
Keep in mind Sugar Ray Robinson is usually considered the greatest boxer of all time, and he had several loses.
Same goes for Marciano and generally not being considered the greatest Heavy of all time and being undefeated.
ufoalf
10-15-2008, 12:00 PM
Keep in mind Sugar Ray Robinson is usually considered the greatest boxer of all time, and he had several loses.
Same goes for Marciano and generally not being considered the greatest Heavy of all time and being undefeated.
Staying undefeated against good competition in MMA is much harder than in Boxing :good
BewareofDawg
10-15-2008, 12:43 PM
Staying undefeated against good competition in MMA is much harder than in Boxing :good
You are comparing todays MMA fighters to yesteryears boxers. Those boxers from back then were fighting over 12 x's a year sometimes in their prime. It was a different world, Fedor fights what once or twice a year? And Honestly Marciano fought 50 years ago, who's to say that in 50 years there are gonna be fighters in MMA that make Fedors competition look like an absolute joke the way this sport is progressing. Not knocking anybody at all, but to simply say that Fedor staying undefeated is a tougher task then Marciano doing it is simple minded....you might be right, but it requires a little more thought I think. :good
ufoalf
10-15-2008, 12:57 PM
You are comparing todays MMA fighters to yesteryears boxers. Those boxers from back then were fighting over 12 x's a year sometimes in their prime. It was a different world, Fedor fights what once or twice a year? And Honestly Marciano fought 50 years ago, who's to say that in 50 years there are gonna be fighters in MMA that make Fedors competition look like an absolute joke the way this sport is progressing. Not knocking anybody at all, but to simply say that Fedor staying undefeated is a tougher task then Marciano doing it is simple minded....you might be right, but it requires a little more thought I think. :good
I didn't compare them. Beebs did.
I'm just talking about the ways to lose and the much more high risk that MMA is. One lucky punch and its done. It's just harder to be undefeated. I don't see how much more thought there could possibly be.
I also don't think how one can be mediocre for several years, than have a spurt of brilliancy at the end his career and be called the greatest ever. Over someone who was brilliant throughout his career and been an argued p4p king for YEARS instead of a year or 2. I think by the end of 2009 it'll be more clear who's who. Right now it depends on everyone's creteria. But I think it's clear who's the top man in each division with exception of LHW.
BewareofDawg
10-15-2008, 01:13 PM
I didn't compare them. Beebs did.
I'm just talking about the ways to lose and the much more high risk that MMA is. One lucky punch and its done. It's just harder to be undefeated. I don't see how much more thought there could possibly be.
I also don't think how one can be mediocre for several years, than have a spurt of brilliancy at the end his career and be called the greatest ever. Over someone who was brilliant throughout his career and been an argued p4p king for YEARS instead of a year or 2. I think by the end of 2009 it'll be more clear who's who. Right now it depends on everyone's creteria. But I think it's clear who's the top man in each division with exception of LHW.
Ok fine you didn't compare specific fighters, but you did compare the sports. yeah there may be more ways to lose in MMA, but that means there are also more ways to win too. For example, St. Pierre may have suffered that devastating loss to Serra due to the dynamics of the sport but Serra also got that great win and accomplishment for the same reason. Now you may not see any reason to put more thought into it but I do. You see Fedor fights when he wants to, and has as much time as he wants to prepare for these fights. Now forget about the rules of the two sports, Marciano for example fought 12-13 times some years that means little injuries, colds, personal issues and any other bullshit came with the territory of a never-ending training camp. And yeah you only have to worry about being punched in boxing, but you also can only punch the other guy as well.
And who ever called BJ Penn "mediocre"??? He lost a close fight to Jens Pulver, lost to georges st pierre, Matt Hughes and Machida @ LHW. Falling short while chasing "Great Achievements" doesn't make you mediocre. :deal Not to mention if you actually watch those fights, he was winning the Matt Hughes fight quite convincingly before he got injured and gassed. He gave Machida, maybe the most skilled LHW in the world a helluva fight, and he's the only guy I've seen to not only prevent GSP from passing, avoid all damage on the ground and stuff a good percentage of his takedowns..until fatigue prohibitted him from doing so. And this is all from a guy who's natural fighting weight is 155lbs :deal Mediocre? No.
chimba
10-15-2008, 01:21 PM
I didn't compare them. Beebs did.
I'm just talking about the ways to lose and the much more high risk that MMA is. One lucky punch and its done. It's just harder to be undefeated. I don't see how much more thought there could possibly be.
I also don't think how one can be mediocre for several years, than have a spurt of brilliancy at the end his career and be called the greatest ever. Over someone who was brilliant throughout his career and been an argued p4p king for YEARS instead of a year or 2. I think by the end of 2009 it'll be more clear who's who. Right now it depends on everyone's creteria. But I think it's clear who's the top man in each division with exception of LHW.
See this is relative...when he had this so called mediocre years..
He drew with a terrific fighter still in peak in Uno..
he lost a competitive fight to Machida...(one of the few who landed on Lyoto)
He beat a game Gomi who went on win 20 straight after BJ...
dominated a still prime Renzo
made quick work of an elite heralded striker in Bang Ludwig...
Took a steamrolling GSP to the limit...
had a still prime Hughes b4 he got injured..yes he was injured!
You talk about GSPs resume and its great but dont forget BJs level of comp...and hes always the smaller man
The thing with BJ is that his career has been widely documented..He was unbelievably skilled and had the pressure to be the best ever..sure he disappointed some fans but you cannot deny his greatness and potential to be the all time best...
I love Fedor and yes he is undefeated..hes the same age as BJ but in the last two years..you cannot compare their level of competition..Not even close..
This is what Im saying..right now you can make a case that since the sport has evolved quickly..we are witnessing the 4 best fighters the game has ever known..
Fedor, GSP, Silva and Penn...they are very close...If one of those 4 say like BJ beating GSP or GSP beating Silva..its bound to elevate them and surpass the others...there can only be one
I must add that if Silva bcomes a LHW champ as well..He must be considered...
The thing with BJ is that his career has been widely documented..He was unbelievably skilled and had the pressure to be the best ever..sure he disappointed some fans but you cannot deny his greatness and potential to be the all time best...
First of all, BJ is my favorite fighter.
But having the potential, and actually accomplishing, are two different things. Penn has all the potential in the world. It's his lack of dedication to the sport that has haunted him. Sure BJ has fought stiff competition. And he can still be the greatest of all-time. But right now, I rank St-Pierre well up there.
chimba
10-16-2008, 12:14 AM
First of all, BJ is my favorite fighter.
But having the potential, and actually accomplishing, are two different things. Penn has all the potential in the world. It's his lack of dedication to the sport that has haunted him. Sure BJ has fought stiff competition. And he can still be the greatest of all-time. But right now, I rank St-Pierre well up there.
Thats why I said if he beats GSP..Imagine that beating someone whos well up there...Thats an incredible accomplishment
chimba
10-16-2008, 12:20 AM
Also its not like BJ has been a letdown from the get go..This kid destroyed Uno when he was wet behind the ears.. Koed Din Thomas who was a higher contender than him at a time...He was Dins stepping stone for a fight with Jens.. He fulfilled his potential..but to his standards..not well enough
Also its not like BJ has been a letdown from the get go..This kid destroyed Uno when he was wet behind the ears.. Koed Din Thomas who was a higher contender than him at a time...He was Dins stepping stone for a fight with Jens.. He fulfilled his potential..but to his standards..not well enough
True. BJ's awesome. When he's focused and prepared, it's very difficult to beat him. That's the reason I'm looking forward to his fight with St-Pierre. Penn has already fought Georges. He knows what GSP brings to the table. And St-Pierre will surely train like a maniac for this fight. It's going to be an amazing fight. But it hurts me to say that I see St-Pierre coming out on top.
ufoalf
10-16-2008, 01:30 AM
I wanna check this out...
BJPenn beats GSP. Fedor beats Arlovski AND Barnette. Who's GOAT?
I wanna check this out...
BJPenn beats GSP. Fedor beats Arlovski AND Barnette. Who's GOAT?
Fedor has a slight edge over St-Pierre at this point.
ufoalf
10-16-2008, 02:13 AM
Fedor has a slight edge over St-Pierre at this point.
What?? :rofl:lol::patsch
I guess Fedor is shit compared to St.Pierre right now than. :patsch
chimba
10-16-2008, 02:30 AM
I wanna check this out...
BJPenn beats GSP. Fedor beats Arlovski AND Barnette. Who's GOAT?
I'll give it to Fedor by a hair even if those two doesnt hold a candle to GSP as far as p4p or as far as a tougher challenge.. Arlovski and BArnett are great fighters but have some glaring weaknesses.. GSP doesnt have that
Reason Im giving it to Fedor is Im curious about Arlovski...hes dangerous..He can either be Koed in the 1st or give you a hell of a fight
What?? :rofl:lol::patsch
I guess Fedor is shit compared to St.Pierre right now than. :patsch
Both have basically cleared out their respective divisions.
They have done so in rather dominating fashion.
Both are very well rounded.
So what's your counter arguement? Because I'm ready to defend my opinion.
ufoalf
10-16-2008, 02:55 AM
Both have basically cleared out their respective divisions.
They have done so in rather dominating fashion.
Both are very well rounded.
So what's your counter arguement? Because I'm ready to defend my opinion.
Cause, BJ penn beats GSP and you BARELY giving it to Fedor over gsp? Did you read the question wrong or are you up GSP's butt? My question was really about BJPenn being considered a greater MMAist if he beats GSP over Fedor who beats Arlovski and Barnette.
Cause, BJ penn beats GSP and you BARELY giving it to Fedor over gsp? Did you read the question wrong or are you up GSP's butt? My question was really about BJPenn being considered a greater MMAist if he beats GSP over Fedor who beats Arlovski and Barnette.
Read the last three words of my original post bro.
ufoalf
10-16-2008, 11:38 AM
Read the last three words of my original post bro.
How am I suppose to understand it? At what point? If you talking about right now, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I asked...
How am I suppose to understand it? At what point? If you talking about right now, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I asked...
You don't understand what I mean when I say "at this point"? :huh
ufoalf
10-16-2008, 02:31 PM
You don't understand what I mean when I say "at this point"? :huh
How am I supposed to apply that to my question? :patsch
How am I supposed to apply that to my question? :patsch
Haha. I didn't answer your question! I said at this point, Fedor has a slight edge over St-Pierre. That's all I said.
chimba
10-16-2008, 05:54 PM
Haha. I didn't answer your question! I said at this point, Fedor has a slight edge over St-Pierre. That's all I said.
:lol: thats why always quote it...Im like what the fuck are these guys arguing about?
Beebs
10-17-2008, 12:23 AM
Eh, all this talk about greatness is early, lets wait until theres a classic MMA forum. Right now Fedor, BJ, GSP, and Anderson Silva all have top tier legacies. A few others have great legacies as well, Liddell, Wandy, Hughes, etc.
A few others have great legacies as well, Liddell, Wandy, Hughes, etc.
I consider Liddell to be the greatest LHW of all-time.
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