View Full Version : How would Haye rank all time if...?
JonOli
10-14-2008, 01:40 PM
Where would Haye rank all time - in a British, and a World sense if...
He beats Barrett, then Wlad, and retires.
He Unifies at heavy by beating Barrett, Wlad, and Valuev - retires.
He becomes undisputed HW champ by beating Barret, Wlad, Valuev, and Vitali...then retires.
*I appreciate it's perhaps unlikely that he will beat Wlad, or Vit' - but just presuming he did*
SouthpawSlayer
10-14-2008, 01:42 PM
too many questions there answers range from a nobody to second best ever british hw
mike464
10-14-2008, 01:44 PM
Where would Haye rank all time - in a British, and a World sense if...
He loses to Barrett, and retires. Top 40
He just beats Monty Barrett Top 20
He beats Barrett, then Wlad, and retires. Top 30
He Unifies at heavy by beating Barret, Wlad, and Valuev - retires. Top 15
He becomes undisputed HW champ by beating Barret, Wlad, Valuev, and Vitali...then retires. Top 25
JonOli
10-14-2008, 01:47 PM
too many questions there answers range from a nobody to second best ever british hw
I see your point, but Haye has only about 3 or 4 fights left, and that is the way his career could go.
Just interested in how high he would be viewed should he win those 3 or 4 fights.
Maybe top 50 if he achieved the latter and making a British top 5. Never ever going to happen.
JonOli
10-14-2008, 02:14 PM
Maybe top 50 if he achieved the latter and making a British top 5. Never ever going to happen.
Cheers.
Top 50 aye - not bad.
There are question marks about how good Wlad, and Vitali actually are... so I thought perhaps it would also affect how much kudos he would get from beating them.
I too can't see him beating them though - but it would be some feat.
Could even be a case for being higher. As a guy that started off at cruiserweight it is always a bigger and rarer achivement to topple heavies, especially guys of that size; Valuev, and the Klitschko's. It sort of makes up for none of them having true great resumes themselves.
Holyfield is held very highly quite rightly, and this is the main reason. If he was just a career heavy with that heavy resume it would probably be lower end of a top 100.
My problem with ranking Haye even as a top all time great cruiser is longevity at the weight itself.
He basically was the champion for two fights and then he has basically retired from that particular weight.
Even if he amassed the victories that you have said, he would only have been a heavyweight for 3 years max.
Having said that he would be Britains second greatest heavyweight.
But all time British fighter......i wouldnt like to say.
TommyV
10-14-2008, 03:59 PM
Where would Haye rank all time - in a British, and a World sense if...
He loses to Barrett, and retires. Top 40
He just beats Monty Barrett Top 20
He beats Barrett, then Wlad, and retires. Top 30
He Unifies at heavy by beating Barret, Wlad, and Valuev - retires. Top 15
He becomes undisputed HW champ by beating Barret, Wlad, Valuev, and Vitali...then retires. Top 25
British or all-time?
I can't see the case for ranking him top 15, that's pretty ridiculous. Also, how can he be ranked lower if he beats Vitali aswell?
British or all-time?
I can't see the case for ranking him top 15, that's pretty ridiculous. Also, how can he be ranked lower if he beats Vitali aswell?
I think someones messing with you!
Truth is that Haye cannot get very high up the ATG's no matter how well he does as there just aren't the credible opponents out there that he'd need.
Only beating Vitali would give him good credentials as he's the only current fighter to have proved anything against real top notch opponents - and that was only once and he lost the fight.
The best heavyweight in history could emerge tomorrow but he'd never be able to prove it as things are now.
JonOli
10-14-2008, 04:51 PM
The best heavyweight in history could emerge tomorrow but he'd never be able to prove it as things are now.
The thing is, is that I remember people saying pretty much the same thing (at the time) during Tyson, and later lewis' reign (that the divisions were weak).
robpalmer135
10-14-2008, 04:59 PM
British he would have to go number 2. all time top 20. if he was to beat those 4 guys by KO, top 10 off all time without a doubt.
In my opinion by KO Bonin in round 1 he has already done more as a heavyweight than harrison and skelton.
The thing is, is that I remember people saying pretty much the same thing (at the time) during Tyson, and later lewis' reign (that the divisions were weak).
And it was. Why do you think Tyson does not make most sensible top 10 heavy lists? His resume isn't that hot.
We can speculate as to what a great H2H fighter he was, and I believe he was, but unfortunately it mostly comes down to resume.
Benjiabc
10-14-2008, 05:09 PM
Maybe top 50 if he achieved the latter and making a British top 5. Never ever going to happen.
pretty much the figure i had in my head when i saw the thread, haye could well beat many heavyweights past and present, but the sheer size of wlad and vit would be too much for haye.
Sure, and when Tyson first emerged I still think it was weak, only really starting to warm up after he went to prison and Bowe, Lewis and Holy appeared. Also for the early part of Lewis's reign it was a bit empty. But there was still a few good periods some decent fighters around who would be wide favourites against anyone other that the Klit's if they were here today.
Actually a few heavies are still dragging on from Lewis' time, so if it was weak then what does that make it now that the same guys are still here as has-beens?
I'm sure a few more fighters will appear in the next few years but don't forget that Haye has stated that he wants to retire at 30.
GazOC
10-14-2008, 05:11 PM
And it was. Why do you think Tyson does not make most sensible top 10 heavy lists? His resume isn't that hot.
We can speculate as to what a great H2H fighter he was, and I believe he was, but unfortunately it mostly comes down to resume.
Hearns is also a good example of this. H2H at 147 he would give anyone fits (easily Top 5 IMHO) but his resume at the weight puts him down the list of ATGs at welter.
JonOli
10-15-2008, 01:05 AM
From the front page...
.S: Can I ask you about David Haye? He has now reportedly called out both you and Wladimir. Would you like to fight "The Hayemaker" one day?
Vitali (long pause and then a big sigh) I'm not ready to give you an answer to that. You see, with me it's all about motivation. I have motivation to fight for another belt or to fight Lennox Lewis again, but I really don't think about him [Haye] at all. Maybe, if he becomes a big number payer (money-wise) in the future.... (laughs).
JonOli
11-19-2008, 08:03 PM
Well, just two HUGE obstacles still in the way...
LiamE
11-19-2008, 08:47 PM
Well, just two HUGE obstacles still in the way...
Love the avatar. 3 heads, 1 chin.
JonOli
11-19-2008, 08:51 PM
Love the avatar. 3 heads, 1 chin.
It's true, but Haye - at least two out the pack were willing to take on the biggest all comers - the other in the bunch is only 21.
JonOli
11-19-2008, 09:43 PM
Marvellous Marvin is back.
Olu G. Rotimi
11-20-2008, 04:05 PM
Hearns is also a good example of this. H2H at 147 he would give anyone fits (easily Top 5 IMHO) but his resume at the weight puts him down the list of ATGs at welter.
Not sure what you mean. Hearns was virtually unbeatable at Welterweight. As Muhammed Ali said about Hearns in 1977 "Hearns is just awesome" and boy was he devastating. One of the reasons the Great Sugar Ray Leonard who incidentally I cannot stand as a man is rightly considered a true ATG is because he found a way to beat the unbeatable Hearns. The only people I can put higher than Hearns at Welterweight is Sugar Ray Leonard and Sugar Ray Robinson. I think Hearns might be marginally higher than Tito Trinidad.
If Haye achieved the latter, i.e. he beat the Klitschko's which would do most of the damage, then picked up the remaining belt from whoever just for achievement and official purposes. Then...defended it a few times so we can say he made a certain number of defences of THE heavyweight title... I could see only Fitzsimmons as having a case for being head of him on a British list.
That would make him top 30 all-time overall.
That being possible in so few fights tells you the sort of obstacles ahead of him, and also the size of the tasks, quite literally.
Infern0
11-20-2008, 05:44 PM
He beats Barrett, then Wlad, and retires.
Britain, folk legend
America, Virtually ignored
He Unifies at heavy by beating Barrett, Wlad, and Valuev - retires.
Britain, legend
America, Virtually ignored
He becomes undisputed HW champ by beating Barret, Wlad, Valuev, and Vitali...then retires.
Britain, folk legend
America, grudgingly respected
kosaros
11-20-2008, 06:30 PM
He beats Barrett, then Wlad, and retires.
Britain, folk legend
America, Virtually ignored
He Unifies at heavy by beating Barrett, Wlad, and Valuev - retires.
Britain, legend
America, Virtually ignored
He becomes undisputed HW champ by beating Barret, Wlad, Valuev, and Vitali...then retires.
Britain, folk legend
America, grudgingly respected
Are you sure about that? I mean where is the respect for Calzaghe?
Infern0
11-20-2008, 07:21 PM
Are you sure about that? I mean where is the respect for Calzaghe?
You are probably right, he would still be a bum in the yanks eyes having never beaten a top american
JonOli
12-14-2008, 06:09 PM
Barrett out the way, roll on Vitali in June. :D
JonOli
12-14-2008, 06:11 PM
If Haye achieved the latter, i.e. he beat the Klitschko's which would do most of the damage, then picked up the remaining belt from whoever just for achievement and official purposes. Then...defended it a few times so we can say he made a certain number of defences of THE heavyweight title... I could see only Fitzsimmons as having a case for being head of him on a British list.
That would make him top 30 all-time overall.
That being possible in so few fights tells you the sort of obstacles ahead of him, and also the size of the tasks, quite literally.
Haymaker top 30 all time. :yikes
It never will happen though.
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