James Toney - His moves up...

[Russell]

Comparable to his success in the lower weight classes, what's the consenus on his fights at higher weights?

Could he be considered a great among boxers who've moved way up in weight? Was it more of a diaster than anything great? Somewhere in between?

Who else is he comparable to in regards to moving up?

[Russell]

No one...?

[ChrisPontius]

His career at heavyweight was impressive in the sense that i didn't think he could hang with Peter and Rahman. Peter and Rahman are crude and have many flaws, but they are BIG heavyweights who can bang, so i gave him a lot of respect there. But he losts those fights nethertheless.
He was a contender for a few years although the only HW contender he legitimitly beat was an aging Holyfield, his record is 1-1-1-1.

Very impressive for someone coming from 160lb, but as a heavyweight he was nothing special.

[Russell]

What about his performances against Peter?

[ChrisPontius]

I scored the first fight for Peter by a single point, could've gone either way.
Thing is, everytime Toney would come with a beautiful counter, Peter would throw 2 or 3 punches of which always one landed. He hurt Toney in 4 or 5 rounds whereas Peter walked through Toney's shots without backing up or showing a sign of being hurt. To be fair though, it took 8 rounds of hard right hands from Wladimir Klitschko before Peter backed up a bit, he truely has an iron chin. This was an excellent performance by Toney but his problem is that he can't win rounds CLEARLY. There were a few rounds clearly in his favor, but because of his low workrate, his opponent always comes back with something to even things out more or less. Peter was way too heavy for this fight.

The second fight was a landslide victory in Peters favor. Toney got off to a really bad start in the first two rounds and never found his rythem. I had him winning only one round in the entire fight, and even that round was close. Peter made some adjustments, came in at better shape (though still worse than against Wlad), threw more punches and improved technically a bit.

Like i said, i was impressed that he stood in front of a monster heavyweight like Peter for 24 rounds, but he stilll lost those fights. I don't think he could've taken Peter's punches without bulking up.

The key to beat Toney at heavyweight is simply throw a lot of punches. Toney's workrate is low because he's fat and uses a lot of energy to slip and dogde punches. In my opinion, Rahman beat Toney simply by throwing a lot of punches.

[PowerPuncher]

He was pretty much shot (due to age/fat) against Peter/Rahman and was injured allot after 2003. 2003 Toney easily beats Rahman and Peter (and he deserved the decision against Peter in the first fight)

He beat Holyfield, Ruiz (yes he won) and Jirov and was past his prime against all of them. He probably could have beat Byrd, Peter, Brewster, Sanders if he fought them from 2003-2004. Wlad and Vitali may have been too tall and too big for him but who knows he may have even beaten them. So he was an excellent HW all in all

Yes he used steroids but so do most of todays heavyweights and he didnt get too mcuh benefit from them

[Bad_Intentions]

he should of never gone up to 250. that's too much for him.

maybe 200 or 220.

toney @ cruiserweight was 12 and 0. a very good record.

toney @ light-heavyweight was 9 and 3.

toney @ supermiddleweight was 12 and 1

toney @ middleweight was 46 and 0 before loosing to roy jones jr as a super middleweight.

so toney's best weights were middle,supermiddle and cruiserweight.

[JohnThomas1]

toney @ middleweight was 46 and 0 before loosing to roy jones jr as a super middleweight.


Don't forget the two draws. He had plenty of fights just over 160 especially just before Jones. The last fight he got near 160 was about 12 fights before Jones when he fought McCallum.

[janitor]

His career at heavyweight was impressive in the sense that i didn't think he could hang with Peter and Rahman. Peter and Rahman are crude and have many flaws, but they are BIG heavyweights who can bang, so i gave him a lot of respect there. But he losts those fights nethertheless.
He was a contender for a few years although the only HW contender he legitimitly beat was an aging Holyfield, his record is 1-1-1-1.

Very impressive for someone coming from 160lb, but as a heavyweight he was nothing special.

You realize that if he had not been striped after beating Ruiz and had got the nod against Ramhan (both theoreticaly possible) then he would have been ring magazine heavyweight champion.

[ChrisPontius]

Yes i do.

By the way, he received a title shot from at that time the ring champion Vitali Klitschko, but instead of taking that offer, his only response was "these Russians are bums" etc etc. He also turned down a title shot from Wladimir Klitschko in 2006 after that dubious draw against Rahman. Which was a gift, but he also turned it down. Clearly if he was going to win a championship, he wasn't going to do it by beating the best out there.

He cheated against Ruiz and was lucky to get a draw against Rahman, which Rahman won by at least two rounds.

[janitor]

Yes i do.

By the way, he received a title shot from at that time the ring champion Vitali Klitschko, but instead of taking that offer, his only response was "these Russians are bums" etc etc. He also turned down a title shot from Wladimir Klitschko in 2006 after that dubious draw against Rahman. Which was a gift, but he also turned it down. Clearly if he was going to win a championship, he wasn't going to do it by beating the best out there.

He cheated against Ruiz and was lucky to get a draw against Rahman, which Rahman won by at least two rounds.

I surpose you have to ask what he could have done at heavyweight if he had bot his ample but into shape. Maybe he beats Ruiz without cheating, perhaps he edges Ramhan.

[ChrisPontius]

Maybe, maybe not.

Maybe he couldn't have taken those shots at 190.

[jackiebrown]

one thing is certain the man is hof bound

[Mantequilla]

Toney is a piece of shit.

[Nemesis]

Toney is a piece of shit.

:lol: agreed, he gets handled by any elite fighter he faces

[Mantequilla]

:good

[miamite]

He hurt Toney in 4 or 5 rounds whereas Peter walked through Toney's shots without backing up or showing a sign of being hurt. Woah, 4 or 5 times? He was legitimately hurt once, towards the end of a round when he held onto a rope, and possibly another time, but no way was he hurt 4 or 5 times. Being hurt is a shape that Toney was not in for 4 or 5 times during that fight, in my opinion. Possibly stunned, but not badly and far from in trouble of being stopped.

And check out this clip of Toney backing Peter up a bit:
-pT8bADqPJk

[miamite]

I think Toney was a legitimate threat at heavyweight, during the period he moved up. And he knew it as well. He knew that he was catching a great time to move up in weight, when the division was weak, as he stated a couple times. He did earn the WBA heavyweight title, of course before testing positive for steroids, and he did draw with the WBC heavyweight champion at the time. That is an impressive record on its own. He was a good heavyweight, but his age and weight caught up to him before he could do any serious damage to the heavyweight division. His stint at heavyweight was the end of the line for Toney, and he did a fine job considering again his age and weight.