Kalule v. Kalambay The real story

[Woller]

Lately there has been some bizarre stories about this fight, so for the benefit of all those who has not seen the fight, I watched it again last night.
Kalule is pressuring and dominating the fight in all 12 rounds. Kalambay is simply not able to control Kalules southpaw aggresion. Very early in the fight Kalambay gets a cut over his left eye, that might have handicapped him.
There are three knock downs in the fight. At least the very nervous english referee counts three times. In the 5th round Kalule is floored - Genuine k.d. 10-8 round for Kalambay. In the 11th round Kalule is on the floor again, but from the way he falls, it looks to mee like Kalambay actually stood on his foot. (Like the famous Wepner v Ali "knock down"). Kalule had dominated the round, so I cannot give more that an 10-9 round to Kalambay. In the last round Kalambay is on the floor. A punch is landed, but it looks more like they get their legs tangled. (Several times during the fight Kalambay stumbled to the floor because of their different style.) Kalule dominated this last round, so 10-8 for Kalule.
I scored the fight 117-110 for Kalule, but a few rounds were close, so I can accept something like 116-113 Kalule.
This was actually to close for comfort in Italy in those days. I was very difficult to get a decision i Italy and Spain, so Kalule was very lucky to get a split decision.
The fight was televised in Italy, but not in Denmark.

Woller

[Russell]

*Cue tired Rooster rant on how Kaule sucks* :lol:

[natonic]

Kalambay is simply not able to control Kalules southpaw aggresion.

I've never seen this fight but I find this statement very plausible. Kalambay suffered one knockout in his career against the southpaw Nunn. It looked to me like Kalambay was very troubled by Nunn being a southpaw and just got caught cold in the first round.
As far as Kalule-Kalambay, disregarding the decision, was it a good action fight?

[PowerPuncher]

Interesting I was told Kalambay was robbed, anyone else seen the fight to give their thoughts?

[My dinner with Conteh]

Interesting I was told Kalambay was robbed, anyone else seen the fight to give their thoughts?


Not seen it. I'll check Boxing News when I'm home to see how they scored it. I don't recall a 'robbery'.

[PowerPuncher]

Not seen it. I'll check Boxing News when I'm home to see how they scored it. I don't recall a 'robbery'.

I was having a Leonard-Duran debate on their top wins when someone called it a 'robbery' (no it wasnt actually Rooster :lol: )

[Mantequilla]

I don't know who the bizarre stories are referring to(, but i've discussed this fight a few times recently(prividing infor for those that asked about it) and wouldn't like to think it's me you're referring to.I like and rate both fighters and have no agenda to push for either one.


Anwyay, that aside and just talking scoringi don't agree with your take on the action or card at all.there was no outright dominating by either figher in this fight to my eyes(it was a fight where great defence mostly dominated) and more less every round was a competitive one.You describe it as if it was Duran vs Buchanan.

I thought Kalambay won by about five points, giving him two ten eight tounds and Kalule one for the 12th.Scored it the first time i watched it which was about a year and a half ago or so.My copy has no commentary so i wasn't sure if it was an italian or Danish Broadcast.

imo as the fight went on Kalambay neutralised Kalule's sneak lead left and jab, outcountering and outjabbing him.Kalule was also staggered several times outside of the knockdowns.Neither fighter seemed to have an issue with the others stance from a technical perspective.

As for the knocdowns we mostly agree, but the second Kalule knockdown was definitely from a clean perfect counter right hand.kalule lunged in with a jab and got caught perfectly.I'd need to watch it again as i don't recall even seeing their feet from the angle it was shown at, but this was most certainly a knockdown.

I didn't see Kalambay hurt at all in the fight, though as you say he slipped at least three or four times and almost falls right of the ring after tripping over Kalule's lead right foot in the sixth..that must be what boxrec is referring to when they say he was down in the sixth, yet the ref did not give any kind of count that i could see.

Raging bull has also seen the fight and he seemed to agree with my scoring for what's its worth.

Regarding the fights worth, it's a great fight IMO.

[My dinner with Conteh]

I don't know who the bizarre stories are referring to(, but i've discussed this fight a few times recently(prividing infor for those that asked about it) and wouldn't like to think it's me you're referring to.I like and rate both fighters and have no agenda to push for either one.


Anwyay, that aside and just talking scoringi don't agree with your take on the action or card at all.there was no outright dominating by either figher in this fight to my eyes(it was a fight where great defence mostly dominated) and more less every round was a competitive one.You describe it as if it was Duran vs Buchanan.

I thought Kalambay won by about five points, giving him two ten eight tounds and Kalule one for the 12th.Scored it the first time i watched it which was about a year and a half ago or so.My copy has no commentary so i wasn't sure if it was an italian or Danish Broadcast.

imo as the fight went on Kalambay neutralised Kalule's sneak lead left and jab, outcountering and outjabbing him.Kalule was also staggered several times outside of the knockdowns.Neither fighter seemed to have an issue with the others stance from a technical perspective.

As for the knocdowns we mostly agree, but the second Kalule knockdown was definitely from a clean perfect counter right hand.kalule lunged in with a jab and got caught perfectly.I'd need to watch it again as i don't recall even seeing their feet from the angle it was shown at, but this was most certainly a knockdown.

I didn't see Kalambay hurt at all in the fight, though as you say he slipped at least three or four times and almost falls right of the ring after tripping over Kalule's lead right foot in the sixth..that must be what boxrec is referring to when they say he was down in the sixth, yet the ref did not give any kind of count that i could see.

Raging bull has also seen the fight and he seemed to agree with my scoring for what's its worth.

Regarding the fights worth, it's a great fight IMO.


Good post mate. It seems it may have been dodgy.

[PowerPuncher]

Ofcourse in a close fight you only need 3 swing rounds to have 6 point differences between 2 people's scores.

[Mantequilla]

I'd hasten to add i've no issues with anyone scoring differently than me, but this thread is pretty damn smug if it's referring to me and Bull's takes on the fight(we are the only two on this site i know that have seen and discussed it.Implying deliberate deception on our part.

I don't believe i've ever called it a disgraceful robbery or anthing like that either.It's a great competitive bout that imo Kalule was very lucky to get the nod in.

Not everett escalera by any means, but to me a more clean cut easier fight to score than something like zarate vs Pintor, or Rose vs Chucho Castillo.

[Woller]

Hi Mantequilla
Don´t worry - I have not picked you out for spanking, just too many post on too many forums during the last year.
By the way if you ask (Great guy) Raging Bull where he got this fight, he might even say he got it from:
Woller

[Mantequilla]

:good

I thought maybe Rooster had been up to his anti-leonard(and thus kalule) trolling again.

[Mantequilla]

Okay i found my old scorecard for this fight and just watched it again to see if i thought differently..i didn't score it again as i prefer to only score a fight once or twice if i can help it, so as to get as close to a ringside judging experience as possible.

kalambay 10 10 10 09 10 10 10 10 10 09 10 08
Kalule..... 10 09 09 10 08 10 09 09 09 10 08 10

First even round could have gone to kalule as he started very fast, had his timing down right away and landed some nice sneak lead lefts.He was outjabbed and started to get picked off for the last minute, with his legs buckled briefly.

Other than that arguable round , the only other one i would change is the last which isn't really deserving of a 10-8.kalule gets hurt and is forced backwards, but catches kalambay coming in a second or two before he slips to the floor after the resulting missed exchange.He's not hurt and even fi you give Kalule credit for putting him slightly off balance previously, i wouldn't give a ten eight for it as it was at best an even round for him prior to it.

So, give Kalule both even rounds and he still loses the fight in my eyes, especially if you score the last even or for Sumbu.The knockdowns really cost him imo.

[Woller]

Okay, we simply don´t agree on this fight. I have Kalune sneaking the first four rounds, with maybe one of them even. I certainly give the first to Kalule.
Life would be boring if we all saw things the same way.

Best wishes
Woller

[My dinner with Conteh]

Didn't Kalule scores a knockdown in the 6th? I dont see how this can be scored 10-10 if so. Like mentioned earlier, it depends if it was offical or not. I read the Boxing News report- they don't give out their score but seem to favour Kalule, just. They seem to count the knockdown in the 6th also.

[AlFrancis]

I'd hasten to add i've no issues with anyone scoring differently than me, but this thread is pretty damn smug if it's referring to me and Bull's takes on the fight(we are the only two on this site i know that have seen and discussed it.Implying deliberate deception on our part.

I don't believe i've ever called it a disgraceful robbery or anthing like that either.It's a great competitive bout that imo Kalule was very lucky to get the nod in.

Not everett escalera by any means, but to me a more clean cut easier fight to score than something like zarate vs Pintor, or Rose vs Chucho Castillo.
Out of curiosity, how do you score the Rose Castillo fight?

[Mantequilla]

Didn't Kalule scores a knockdown in the 6th? I dont see how this can be scored 10-10 if so. Like mentioned earlier, it depends if it was offical or not. I read the Boxing News report- they don't give out their score but seem to favour Kalule, just. They seem to count the knockdown in the 6th also.

That was the round where kalambay slipped and almost fell through the ropes.The ref didn't give a count.

Whoever did the report has probably just made a mistake.It wasn't a situation like Graham's debatable knockdown of mccallum, where the ref did give the count for what looked like a slip.

[Mantequilla]

Out of curiosity, how do you score the Rose Castillo fight?

i thought that other than few notably big rounds for Castillo, Rose generally had a slight but clear enough edge and finished stronger over the last 3-4 rounds.

[My dinner with Conteh]

That was the round where kalambay slipped and almost fell through the ropes.The ref didn't give a count.

Whoever did the report has probably just made a mistake.It wasn't a situation like Graham's debatable knockdown of mccallum, where the ref did give the count for what looked like a slip.


I'll take your word for it mate. It does call the fight 'gruelling' and suggests Kalule "struggled" but seem to favour him because of his "stronger punches" that 'knockdown' possibly made all the difference to their report.


Tyson's on the cover of the issue too. I think it was his first major boxing mag cover.

[AlFrancis]

i thought that other than few notably big rounds for Castillo, Rose generally had a slight but clear enough edge and finished stronger over the last 3-4 rounds.

Thanks

[Doc McCoy]

I'm intrigued by some of the comments here and so will watch & score this one in the coming days and offer my own take.

[Doc McCoy]

Ok so I watched this one today and it is a good, fast-paced fight.

Couple of observations : Kalule had good success with the straight left and also appeared to be the harder puncher of the two. Sumbu fought mostly on the back-foot with good movement and was effective on the counter.

This one is a bit difficult to score given both guys were down a number of times. The first KD Rd5 was more of a push from Sumbu & Kalule stumbled over but it was from a punch so legit. Rd6 and Sumbu goes through the ropes but ref doesn't count it - on the replay it was from a punch to the shoulder by Kalule but Sumbu slipped backwards - I don't think it was a legit KD. Rd11 legit KD by Sumbu. Last RD KD was more Sumbu falling over from the momentum of missing his shot on Kalule and even though he was counted on it I don't think it was a legit KD.

My scoring was 114-115 in favour of. . . . . . . Kalule! I think he did enough to win the fight, he punched harder and landed more often. The knockdowns counted against him in the scoring but this was a very close fight so SD to Kalule seems very fair IMO.

I think if Sumbu worked the jab more often he could have won this bout but Kalule's style had him a bit confused at times.

[Mantequilla]

Fair enough card doc.

I'm surprised you thought kalule appeared the harder puncher though, as he was hurt several times throughout the bout.kalambay never seemed bothered by anything he took.

Incidentally i thought it was kalambay's better jabbing that differentiated them in a lot of the closer rounds.

I hope Bull posts his thoughts or card, as i think he's the only other person with the fight.

[Raging B(_)LL]

Fair enough card doc.

I'm surprised you thought kalule appeared the harder puncher though, as he was hurt several times throughout the bout.kalambay never seemed bothered by anything he took.

Incidentally i thought it was kalambay's better jabbing that differentiated them in a lot of the closer rounds.

I hope Bull posts his thoughts or card, as i think he's the only other person with the fight.

Mantequilla,

You asked me to chime in with my own thoughts on this fight so here I am, but just like I thought you pretty much hit the nail on the head on what my own thoughts are on this fight so there really isn`t much for me to say. I felt Kalambay did the better work throughout and landed the more meaningful as in hurtful punches on Kalule all night whereas Sumbu wasn`t bothered by anything Ayub threw in his direction.

As for my scorecard of this fight I don`t know if I still have it or not, I`ll have to check, but I seem to remember giving it to Kalambay by about three points at the end. Very entertaining fight this was between two underrated technicians, I should watch it again this weekend as its been over a year since I last seen it.

[sweet_scientist]

Mr. Woller has done the big favour of sending me this fight and it was a very good bout indeed - I'm sure that's one thing we can all agree on. Thanks again mate :good

First I'll give my card on the fight:

113-113 - A Draw
Kalule winning rounds 1,2,4,6,8,10 and 12.
Kalambay winning rounds 3,5 (ten-eight round),7,9 and 11 (ten-eight round).

It was a very close fight as I saw it, definitely no domination throughout by either fighter, and it was pretty stylistically similar the whole way through: Kalambay moving and jabbing, Kalule trying to slip the jab and get in with lead lefts.

I think Kalambay was hampered with how small the ring was. He seemed to be getting himself tangled up or running into the ropes in an unconfortable fashion on quite a few occasions, and he was probably lucky not to be called on knockdowns on a couple of rounds, especially round 2 where he seemed to fall into the ropes and almost sit on them after a Kalule punch and also the 6th, where what looked like a grazing punch to the shoulder forced him off balance (together with their feet tangling), and made him get tangled up in the ropes. If he had a bigger ring I think he would have been able to operate with his stick and move style much more effectively.

Another thing that cost him on the cards of two judges so big was the fact that he would react so ostensibly whenever Kalule hit him. As he was on the retreat and so keen to avoid punches (as hit and don't get hit fighters often are), even when Kalule merely touched him Kalambay would be pulling back and it looked like it was solely due to the force of Kalule's punches that he was moving back so evidently. As such, Kalule's blows looked like they were having more effect than what they probably were.

I thought Kalambay did control the fight at times with his good jab, but he was a little reluctant to put out anything other than a jab, and allowed Kalule to take rounds through the use of more power punches. If Kalambay let his right hand go more he would have had more success imo.

Regarding the 12th round, I didn't count the knockdown. I didn't think Kalule landed a punch that knocked him down. If I was simply following protocol, that would have given Kalule the fight by a point on my card, but I don't think a scoring punch put him down, so in the interests of TRUTH, it's a 10-9 round.:good