Did Ali make a habit out of holding...

[Russell]

Behind the head, or what?

Some people think that's the single reason he won against Frazier one time.

He got warned a few seconds into the first round of their first fight for doing it.

Who else did he do that to? I know it's been mentioned as being one of his favorite "tricks"...

[Vanboxingfan]

Why don't you watch a couple of Ali fights and see for yourself? Yes Ali held a lot behind the head. He had some dirty tactics, such as this, some bad habits, such as going straight back and not throwing many body punches, and speed like no other heavyweight who every lived, and he could take a punch like few others. That's Ali. He needed all those attributes to beat Forman, Frazier, Norton and others.

[jackiebrown]

he only beat fraizer once?

[jackiebrown]

wow kid you hate anything that wasnt made prior to the good ol 90s dontcha

[achillesthegreat]

It became an important part of his game. No doubt about that. He was very good at it.

[Unforgiven]

Yes, he did it too much.

I think they call it the "collar tie" hold in mixed martial arts, where it is allowed.
It's surely against Queensberry rules.

[McGrain]

Futch counted the clinch/grabs that Ali initiated after the second fight and it was in the 140's over 12 rounds. That's pretty disgraceful actually.

Yeah holding was a habit for him. Sometimes he got away with it sometimes he didn't. When he didn't he adjusted.

[JohnThomas1]

Ali sucks, he held almost as much as Lennox " the faggot" Lewis.

Did you're second name get banned now I Am Legend? You go thru them like Indian Curry goes thru foreigners.

[McGrain]

Did you're second name get banned now I Am Legend? You go thru them like Indian Curry goes thru foreigners.

I actually found Indian curry more gastrically pallitable than the western variety.

[Bummy Davis]

He used to hold and push down on the opponents head, Richard Pryor made a joke about it, Ali's jab and hold routine

[Unforgiven]

He used to hold and push down on the opponents head, Richard Pryor made a joke about it, Ali's jab and hold routine

Yeah, Richard Pryor made that joke about Ali against Spinks the second time.

Pryor knew his boxing. Never could figure out if he was related to Aaron.

[Mendoza]

Futch counted the clinch/grabs that Ali initiated after the second fight and it was in the 140's over 12 rounds. That's pretty disgraceful actually.

Yeah holding was a habit for him. Sometimes he got away with it sometimes he didn't. When he didn't he adjusted.

Indeed. Most fighters get booed for excessive holding, but with Ali the audience tolerated it because he often played his illegal clinching behind the head antics to the crowd.

[apollack]

Ali flagrantly held quite often. He wore down Foreman's neck with that tactic, and he did it like crazy to Frazier as well. Basically did it to anyone who put the heat on him. Totally illegal, but the officials were so wowed by him too that they never put a stop to it. That's boxing for you.

[Tony]

Yes, he held a lot, and according to all accounts, was very up front about it with Frazier in their second fight.

One dramatic difference between their first and second fights is that in the FOTC, Ali grabbed to get a momentary break when he needed it, but almost always let go after just a moment -- sometimes pushing Frazier away, but rarely holding so long that Mercante was needed to break them. The clinches weren't prolonged at all, and when Ali let go, Frazier was still in punching range.

Various reports said that in their second fight, Ali told Frazier, "I'm gonna hit you and hold you." And in that second fight, Ali not only grabbed Frazier when he needed a break, he held on until the ref came to break them and used the time to try to wrestle Frazier around a bit. Which meant that the clinches were longer, and when they broke up, it was a full, referee's arms' length break, and Frazier had to take time to work his way back into range. Frazier's comment after the rematch decision was something like, "You can't win a fight holding on to a man."

As his career went on, Ali turned that grab and wrestle into a regular tactic -- forcing the opponent's head down and making him expend energy struggling to try to stand upright.

[That tactic resulted in the half-comic, half-tragic scenes in the Ali-Young fight: Young, knowing what Ali was up to, wasn't going to waste his energy trying to pull himself upright -- instead, when Ali tried to pull his head down, Young just let himself fall right down to the canvas.]

[Street Lethal]

As Archie Moore said, "There's no fighter who could hold me behind the head." Frazier and Foreman didn't do what they needed to to stop Ali. I don't think it was a major reason why Ali won anyway. I think what defeated Frazier were Ali's punches, which he landed hundreds of.

[apollack]

As Archie Moore said, "There's no fighter who could hold me behind the head." Frazier and Foreman didn't do what they needed to to stop Ali. I don't think it was a major reason why Ali won anyway. I think what defeated Frazier were Ali's punches, which he landed hundreds of.

Good point. In the gym I teach my fighters how to deal with fouls.

However, a valid counter point is, 'Should a fighter have to expend energy and use time having to deal with fouls?' Isn't the holding an illegal defensive move, a time out, preventing the other fighter from hitting him, without actually having to exhibit legitimate defensive skills such as ducking, blocking, or moving? If holding is an illegal foul, isn't it the job of the referee to stop it or else take points off or disqualify the boxer? If not, why bother having a referee? If holding is okay, then shouldn't the person being held be allowed to counteract that foul with another foul - ie push their face or neck, push them off, or twist them, throw them down, or rabbit or kidney punch?

To this day, I can't understand why it was okay for Jimmy Young to incessantly hold George Foreman, but it wasn't okay for George to push him away when Jimmy held. Foreman had a point taken off simply for trying to prevent a guy from fouling him. That was not fair.

[Lex]

Hell, yeah, Ali held behind the head! He was a master at it, far more effective and subtle than most of today's fighters. But Ali was probably the last champ who was allowed to get away with it routinely.

Nowadays referees have gone too far to the opposite extreme, sometimes penalizing fighters for only a second infraction, or interfering with the fight to the extent that only one boxer is permitted to fight his (or her) fight.

But Ali's best trick was holding. It was very slick, almost invisible. Instead of wrapping around the opponent's arms or between the arm and body, he'd use an open glove and cup the opponent's elbow. This way, Ali expended very little energy, got his opponent off rythm, and walked him back into ring center where Ali had better control.

Foreman admitted that Ali's repeated left jabs wore him down, making his neck and back muscles feel tired and sluggish. I'm not sure whether Foreman realized how much Ali's holding behind the head contributed to Foreman's exhaustion. Well, that, and Foreman punching himself out.

[Holmes' Jab]

Ali sucks, he held almost as much as Lennox " the faggot" Lewis.

.... who consequently knocked your sidekick Tyson TFO in 8 one-sided rounds :good

I Am Legend? Am I correct? ;)

[torchkit]

Holmes' Jab---Who is that in your avatar?