Hopkins vs. Pavlik

[rekcutnevets]

Tonight's fight is an intriguing match-up. Hopkins age is what makes this fight a most improbable win for him. Pavlik is tailor made for a guy like Hopkins, style wise. Pavlik is a high output, stalking destroyer, with little regard for defense. If this fight were taking place a few years ago, I'd pick Hopkins with little hesitation.

In Hopkins' last fight; he schooled Joe Calzaghe, landing the more meaningful punches against his more youthful foe. Hopkins' stamina betrayed him, and Calzaghe was able to deceive two of the three judges into thinking his activity won it for him. Hopkins may not be so lucky tonight if he gasses out. Against Pavlik, Bernard will not be facing someone trying to slap a decision out of him. Hopkins is facing someone that see's him as nothing more than a target for destuction. Pavlik will pound Hopkins with no more regard than he has for a heavy bag if the opportunity for a stoppage should arise.

Though this fight is taking place at 170, so it is not like Pavlik is moving up to face a much bigger foe. Pavlik has faced Taylor at 168, and Hopkins only has 3 fights as a light heavyweight. Hopkins' fight against Wright was also scheduled at a catch weight of 170. It is not like Pavlik is moving up to face Chad Dawson, or any other natural 175 pounder. Pavlik and Hopkins is a bout between 2 middleweights that happen to be fighting at 170lbs.

This fight has numerouse possibilities. Pavlik could very well end Hopkin's career with a spectacular stoppage. Pavlik could batter his foe for a decision. Hopkins could stop Pavlik behind his jab and precision counters. There are only so many clean punches any fighter can take. Hopkins may school Pavlik for enough of the early rounds, and hold off a late surge by Pavlik to take a decision.

Either way, how does this fight effect the legacies of Hopkins and Pavlik?

[salsanchezfan]

...............Well, Pavlik has to win it; if he loses, his "legacy" (fuck I hate that word) is irreparably damaged.

Hopkins can lose and people will write it off as an old man that just kept going too long. This is the kind of fight for him that will always have an asterisk on it.

Pavlik doesn't necessarily have to win huge, but he has to win.

[Russell]

In Hopkins' last fight; he schooled Joe Calzaghe, landing the more meaningful punches against his more youthful foe. Hopkins' stamina betrayed him, and Calzaghe was able to deceive two of the three judges into thinking his activity won it for him.

Well said. I had unbelievably high hopes for that fight, that one of Hopkin's final few fights would be a meaningful win for him. That his legacy would be cemented.

I'm favoring Hopkin's here, anyway. I hope to god he can pull it off.

[GoldenChild]

:lol: Hopkins never schooled Calzaghe

[sitiyzal]

:rofl

[Loewe]

Well, I root for Hopkins but I doubt he can pull it of. A loss won´t hurt Hopkins' legacy but a win would help him quite a bit. Pavlik on the other hand is in a lose-lose situation. If he loses it ends the high standing he has now, if he wins he beat an old man.

[Robbi]

Hopkins better not start holding for the sake of it. He's got the tools and ring generalship to cause Pavlik problems with becoming a spoiler. He also needs to be a bit busier with his hands. He'll be controlled as always. I'd like to see him be steady and consistent with his workrate. Against Tarver his workrate was exactly that, steady. He's asking for trouble with the judges throwing 20 punches a round. Not unless he's got a 100% connect ratio and Pavlik hits nothing but fresh air all night.

[rekcutnevets]

Now, does anyone doubt Hopkins being a top 10 fighter of the past 25 years?

[JohnThomas1]

Hopkins was awesome.

[Russell]

Now, does anyone doubt Hopkins being a top 10 fighter of the past 25 years?

I never doubted it in the first place. :)

[Robbi]

Hopkins was awesome.

His handspeed tonight was remarkable, outwith being 44 years old in 5 weeks time. A fighter of any age would have been happy with that kind of speed. Not ineffective shots either when he triggered them off in 3's and 4's. Still very compact technically when letting them off the leash.

His handspeed tonight was closer to Leonard's than Hagler's when they both fought 21 years ago. Not bad considering Hopkins' age combined with being past his prime weight as well.

That was good he never spoiled and fought with a low punch volume. I asked for steady workrate beforehand.

Hopkins plays the percentage game as well as any boxing in history when at his best. What I mean by the 'percentage game' is that he doesn't waste many shots and just balances out his offense and defense like a true master. His jab was as good as I've seen it for a while. It was non existent against Tarver, Wright, and Calzaghe. Probably because those three were southpaws. He never boxes (jabs) southpaws, doesn't even try to. Usually lead rights and left hooks.

[JohnThomas1]

Yeah, great performance Robbi. His jab was indeed firing, and his leads were pinpoint accurate and his defense so easy and effective. He read Pav like a book. He's a modern day Archie Moore and a real throwback - we should be happy to have him around.

[Loewe]

Well, I root for Hopkins but I doubt he can pull it of. A loss won´t hurt Hopkins' legacy but a win would help him quite a bit. Pavlik on the other hand is in a lose-lose situation. If he loses it ends the high standing he has now, if he wins he beat an old man.

Damned was I wrong. :rofl

[rekcutnevets]

Originally posted by Russell
I never doubted it in the first place.
I should have posted that question in that Chavez thread, where Hopkins' credentials were being heavily debated.

[rekcutnevets]

Bernard Hopkins is a special fighter to me, because I've got to watch his greatness unfold before my eyes. Before my eyes on television of course. I started following boxing in 1989.

Bernard Hopkins has grown so much over the years. When he faced Roy Jones in 1993, he was 22-1 and Jones was 21-0. Hopkins was still on a tier below Jones in terms of development. Their professional records were similar, but Jones' amateur resume was the quite extensive. Hopkins did not begin to come of age until Segundo Mercado.

Hopkins and Mercado fought for the vacant IBF Middleweight title after Jones vacated the division in 1994. I had that fight on tape, and wish I could find it. I thought it was a great fight, and I always thought Hopkins lost. Hopkins vs Mercado was a draw, so the two had a rematch a few months later. Hopkins dominated Mercado in the rematch, and stopped him in the 7th. Hopkins had risen to another level. This was the beginning of a reign reminiscent of Monzon and Hagler. Hopkins did go on to surpass Monzon's record of defenses, but Hopkins is always argued to have faced lesser opposition.

Hopkins did defeat some quality opposition at 160. John David Jackson, Glenn Johnson, Keith Holmes, Felix Trinidad, and Oscar de la Hoya are not bad names to have on your resume. Hopkins' middleweight reign was ended by and undefeated Jermain Taylor. Against Taylor, Hopkins' looked like the better fighter incapable of winning the decision. Hopkins was also 41 years old, when he faced the 27 year old Taylor.

Hopkins then moved up to light heavyweight and challenged Roy Jones conquerer, Antonio Tarver. The 41 year old Hopkins dominated the champion, and pitched a shut-out to win the 175 pound belt. Hopkins defended against Winky Wright at a catch weight of 170. Hopkins handed the smaller Wright the most convincing loss of Wright's career.

Hopkins then defended against Joe Calzaghe. Calzaghe was a champion at super middleweight with a reign similar to Hopkins' middleweight run. Calzaghe had yet to lose a fight, and was leaving his country to come face the old veteran in Hopkins. The fight was close is scoring. Many observer's thought that Hopkins was indeed the better fighter when Calzaghe walked away a split decision winner. Regardless of the official outcome, the Calzaghe fight should be considered an enhancment Hopkins' record.

The you have Kelly Pavlik. Hopkins' gets another shot against an undefeated Middleweight. This middleweight happens to be the champion that twice bested the man that ended Hopkins' middleweight reign. Hopkins dominated Pavlik like no 44 year old I've ever seen against a 26 year old, at least on this level. Foreman was losing when he ko'd Moorer. Hopkins never let the fight even appear as if it could go to his younger foe. Hopkins mastered Pavlik the same way he has mastered his craft. Hopkins was faster, more technical, and just beat Kelly Pavlik up.

Last night's fight may do nothing to improve Hopkins' credentials as a middleweight, as the fight took place at 170. It does add to his legacy, and further solidify just how great he is.

[Robbi]

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[Jude]

Masterclass performance. I hope he retires or fights winner of calzaghe Jones if it presents itself. No other fight worth taking. He really broke pavliks heart in the 10th by just bullying him into submission. Never thought he had it left in him.

[Robbi]

Masterclass performance. I hope he retires or fights winner of calzaghe Jones if it presents itself. No other fight worth taking. He really broke pavliks heart in the 10th by just bullying him into submission. Never thought he had it left in him.

I think he should retire. It's a risky game he's playing at this stage of his career. One day he will suddenly look in his mid-40's and get dominated or stopped. And Hopkins will be the type of fighter who will want to go out with a win, not a loss.

It's a terrible cycle for a fighter and a habit that may well prove to be fatal. He done well to beat Tarver and Wright after the Taylor defeats. Now Pavlik after the Calzaghe setback. He's been inconsistent since the Eastman fight back in early 2005.

As time goes on he'll be more prone to being defeated again, perhaps dominated convincingly. Dawson would be the one to beat Hopkins. I would not give Hopkins a prayer against Dawson who possesses good ring generalship, extremely quick hands, a solid jab, and the overall style to have Hopkins' number.

[Loewe]

I think he should retire. It's a risky game he's playing at this stage of his career. One day he will suddenly look in his mid-40's and get dominated or stopped. And Hopkins will be the type of fighter who will want to go out with a win, not a loss.

It's a terrible cycle for a fighter and a habit that may well prove to be fatal. He done well to beat Tarver and Wright after the Taylor defeats. Now Pavlik after the Calzaghe setback. He's been inconsistent since the Eastman fight back in early 2005.

As time goes on he'll be more prone to being defeated again, perhaps dominated convincingly. Dawson would be the one to beat Hopkins. I would not give Hopkins a prayer against Dawson who possesses good ring generalship, extremely quick hands, a solid jab, and the overall style to have Hopkins' number.

I think Hopkins should either take on the winner of Calzaghe-Jones or Jermain Taylor at 170 catchweight or retire.

[Robbi]

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Kelly Pavlik

"I wasn't tired, I couldn't do that, couldn't do this, I dunno what it was. It wasn't because of his athleticism or craftyness. Jermain Taylor and Calzaghe hit him at will"

Kelly, it was Bernard Hopkins. :lol:

[Robbi]

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Brief highlights.