Make Hagler Better

[McGrain]

In this thread list areas where you think Hagler could have improved as a fighter; what do you think he could do better, what shortfall was there physically?

Anything else? How to improve this near perfect fighter?

[JohnThomas1]

Give him SRL's fighting brain and reaction to external pressures.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Hand and foot speed were good but nothing spectacular.

[McGrain]

Hand and foot speed were good but nothing spectacular.


So these are the two key areas above all other you'd see him improved in? What type of fighter do you have then, significantly better?

[My dinner with Conteh]

So these are the two key areas above all other you'd see him improved in? What type of fighter do you have then, significantly better?


A virtually unbeatable one- that's if Monzon is not allowed the same improvements. Although I see what JT's alluding to in his post. Marv's mentality, while still very good, wasn't quite in the Ali league.

[redrooster]

Give him SRL's fighting brain and reaction to external pressures.

That's the last thing you'd want to do. If the Leonard-Hearns fight is any indication of leonard's fighting brain, you certainly would not want to do Marvin a disservice and jeoparize his chances of winning.

It would have take him far too long to stop making faces and get his ass in gear, would have dumb ass fall hopelessly behind and most likely, have the fight stopped due to cuts.

If anything, improve his left hand, and resistance to cuts.

[mr. magoo]

I agree with this.

If anything, improve his left hand, and resistance to cuts.



But not with this

If the Leonard-Hearns fight is any indication of leonard's fighting brain, you certainly would not want to do Marvin a disservice and jeoparize his chances of winning.

[salsanchezfan]

One thing that always gets overlooked when discussing him toward the end of his career, and one of the biggest issues for his downfall to Leonard I feel, is the fact that by 1985 he was only fighting once a year. At that advanced age, you need to be in the ring a bit more often. Reflexes aren;t helped by such long layoffs. He'd by then certainly earned a bit of a break here and there, but his in-the-ring appearances were far too infrequent down the stretch.

[sweet_scientist]

I'd give him Leonard's popularity. That should take care of the first Antuofermo robbery, make sure Duran didn't get rediculously close on the scorecards and put him over the line against Ray.

[Drew101]

One thing that always gets overlooked when discussing him toward the end of his career, and one of the biggest issues for his downfall to Leonard I feel, is the fact that by 1985 he was only fighting once a year. At that advanced age, you need to be in the ring a bit more often. Reflexes aren;t helped by such long layoffs. He'd by then certainly earned a bit of a break here and there, but his in-the-ring appearances were far too infrequent down the stretch.

Indeed. Hagler was never any better as he was when he was fighting three or four times a year. It probably would have helped his cause to fight every six months or so, as that would have slowed down the atrophy of his reflexes.

[Nick Balsamo]

Hagler was physicaly tough, but he could've improve his mental toughness a bit.

True, he never was afraid of anyone. He knew, in each and every fight, that he could hurt his opponent more than his opponent could hurt him.

His ratio of Power/Chin/Boxing skills is among the best in history, so he knew no one would ever dominate him in a fight. From a physical standpoint, he got an all-time chin, was able to box from both sides, he was intimidating and had an excellent package of skills and power to be at least 50/50 against any middleweight that ever lived. That mental edge wasn't always present in his biggest fights...

Sometimes he showed too much respect (Duran fight) or lacked a bit of in-fight intelligence to adjust during the fight (Leonard fight). When he fought Hearns, the fight was brought to him so he reacted very well. Vs Leonard, he had too much time to think and IMO Leonard was the fresher of the two. The Mugabi and Hearns fights took a lot outta him for sure too.

I think he lacked the ability to cut the ring off well against a top notch opponent. We all know he prefered to counter punch than to chase down the opponent. I guess slick defensive movers would always trouble him... so Leonard, Nunn and Roy Jones Jr. could give him hell.

There's also no certitude that Hagler would easily beat crafty boxer-punchers like Hopkins, Toney and McCallum.

Being a good counter-puncher, he had a huge advantage versus agressive punchers... Mugabi, Benn, Jackson are all in serious danger with Hagler.

That being said, I still rank Marv as the best middleweight ever. He's got the total package. :yep

1- Marvin Hagler
2- Carlos Monzon
3- Harry Greb
4- Sugar Ray Robinson
5- Bernard Hopkins

[redrooster]

Well said except for one thing which is that Marvin took the fight to hitman and hitman reacted.

[Nick Balsamo]

Well said except for one thing which is that Marvin took the fight to hitman and hitman reacted.

Yeah, I give you that one... Hagler wanted to get inside and hurt the Hitman with crisp punches. Hearns was willing to trade and gave everything he had to keep Hagler off him. I wasn't enough.

[Lex]

Better adaptability. Everyone else here has already pointed out the specific flaws, however minor, in Hagler's repertoire.

He had one-punch KO ability, but too often chose to play it safe and counterpunch when it was safe to press ahead.

He could fight equally well southpaw or orthodox, but his choices for one or the other sometimes seemed random rather than deliberate and tactical.

In his first fight against Antuofermo and against SRL he didn't seem to have a sense of urgency toward the end of the bouts. Sure, he was ripped off in the Antuofermo bout, but you know the cliche - a challenger must *take* the title from a popular champion.

His greatest strength may have been the danger he posed in rematches. Too bad he didn't demand a rematch against SRL because Hagler would have destroyed (and "destructed"?) him.

[JohnThomas1]

Better adaptability. Everyone else here has already pointed out the specific flaws, however minor, in Hagler's repertoire.


That's why i gave him SRL's fighting brain. I've long pointed out his adaptive troubles vs top technicians.

[Amsterdam]

He needs Harry Greb's incredible skill level...

[jyuza]

There was almost nothing to change, like Scientist said his biggest disadvantage was his popularity.
He was recognized as one of the best only after his KO victory in the Hearns bout.

[NickHudson]

I would have improved his chin, from granite to reinforced titanium...

[META5]

Better foot and handspeed
More clinical footwork i.e. cutting off the ring better against slicksters
Les pensive against the very best that stood off of him and made him think too much in the ring, thus playing to their tune ... more deliberate in his work e.g. Duran and Leonard fights.

[Duodenum]

Hire Eddie Futch.

[Stewbear]

There is no area he is weak in, so all you can really say is give him more one punch power or something like that.

[Vantage_West]

add two more inches a harder left hand and i would see the best thing since sliced bread