What if hearns had been 147 vs leonard???

[bumdujour]

he was 145.....two pounds under the limit and might have overtrained.

as gil clancy pointed out that hearns made a mistake coming in so low, that he should have come down to 147 and then put on a few pounds after the weigh in.

i too think that 145 was a mistake. he did look kinda sickly and you could really tell how he lacked strength down the stretch.

so lets pretend he was 147...........would it have made a difference in the result???

[MrSmall]

Get out.

[redrooster]

he was 145.....two pounds under the limit and might have overtrained.

as gil clancy pointed out that hearns made a mistake coming in so low, that he should have come down to 147 and then put on a few pounds after the weigh in.

i too think that 145 was a mistake. he did look kinda sickly and you could really tell how he lacked strength down the stretch.

so lets pretend he was 147...........would it have made a difference in the result???

Hell yes, Tommy would have won an easy decision.

[bumdujour]

Get out.


:huh

[Unforgiven]

The extra 2 pounds would possibly represent the extra water and strength needed to last another 4 or 5 minutes. Maybe enough to finish strongly.

It's impossible to say though, maybe Hearns still would have been run near flat, and maybe Leonard had enough to push him harder to go flat in the last couple of rounds.

[Drew101]

Leonard came in at 146, so at 147 he might have had that much more energy as well.

[Titan1]

Leonard still would win.

[Jose FM]

nope...

[Shake]

If you re-run that fight five times, you get five different results. What actually happened is what is important, both could have won on any given occasion.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Q. What if Leonard had been 147 vs Duran in Montreal?
A. Duran UD.


Q. What if Tommy had been 147 in 1981?
A. Leonard TKO 14.



End of thread.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Hell yes, Tommy would have won an easy decision.


Same scenario with Marvellous (with two L's) Mike Colbert coming in even more underweight than Hearns. After totally schooling Hagler in their battle entitled "Someone's L is gonna go" (as in the correct spelling of Marvelous/Marvellous) he succumbed to exhaustion. Poor Mike. :-(

[redrooster]

Same scenario with Marvellous (with two L's) Mike Colbert coming in even more underweight than Hearns. After totally schooling Hagler in their battle entitled "Someone's L is gonna go" (as in the correct spelling of Marvelous/Marvellous) he succumbed to exhaustion. Poor Mike. :-(

A regular one man band aren't we? You must have special access to all these golden nuggets. What else have you been holding out on?

"totally schooled Hagler"

"He succumbed to exhaustion"

"I was at a dinner with Leonard, Hagler, and Hearns and other V.I.P's"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[My dinner with Conteh]

Jesus, you invented 'one man band' squire. Wasn't this your favourite album:


[Only registered and activated users can see links]


:good

[Luigi1985]

If he had been 147 lbs, he would have easily KO´d SRL, if he would have been 148 lbs. for example, he would have murdered SRL, hands down...

[80s champs]

I'm probobly one of the biggest Hearns fans there is,but I have to admit,Tommy's lack of defensive experience,and Leonard's body shots would have eventually finished him that night. I don't think Hearn's landed any true right hands because of Leonard's ability to get out of the way. WOW two great fighters in the ring that night. But in the rematch Hearn's clearly beat him,more than Hagler did.. Sure wish there was a Hagler Hearns 2.:nut It would have been a longer fight,with a more prepared Hearns,end result?? hard to say.

[My dinner with Conteh]

I'm probobly one of the biggest Hearns fans there is,but I have to admit,Tommy's lack of defensive experience,and Leonard's body shots would have eventually finished him that night. I don't think Hearn's landed any true right hands because of Leonard's ability to get out of the way. WOW two great fighters in the ring that night. But in the rematch Hearn's clearly beat him,more than Hagler did.. Sure wish there was a Hagler Hearns 2.:nut I would have been a longer fight,with a more prepared Hearns.


Difference is, your not quite as sad as some of the idiots on here. They're quite embarrassing. :oops:

[TIGEREDGE]

145 Suggests That His Training Camp Went And Weight Making Went To Perfection. I Thought Fighters Who Drain Themself Making The Weight Come In Bang On The Limit

[enquirer]

I personally am a welter and i must say that when i fall to 144 due to dehydration i feel weaker and subdued whereas at 145-147 i feel much better and stronger....Maybe thats just me,i dont know....
However i dont think we really know the truth of whether tommy was drained or not and he certainly fought and looked very good in the leonard fight....And certainly rays stamina was always extremely good,especially at welter....We would have to ask tommy off the record for the truth of the matter,as to be frank i think manny steward is a very weird guy when he talks boxing and needs to be taken with a big pinch or even sack of salt....Certainly hearns still had his speed,agression and intangibles with him and some say hearns never looked better even though he lost.....
The rematch also showed that these two would alaways have close fights....
Finally,why do people always assume ray had a perfect training camp with no problems and came in at his absolute strongest weight in every big fight he had? (no to mention if we want to mention 'what ifs',what if rays eye hadnt puffed up to nearly closing,could he have beaten hearns more convincingly then? )

[Vantage_West]

Leonard came in at 146, so at 147 he might have had that much more energy as well.but when your 3 inches shorter thats a bit more wieght you dont carry

hearns is askinny as hell and ray was lean and mean that night...to say that 2 pounds is nothing is a petty thing...forma fighting stance it doesnt matter what wieght but in stamina that wieght loss is huge.

ray is bigger stucturally,he has a bigger frame and physique hearns had alot of hieght but not alot of beefness to him which could carry a bit more water. which could of carried him a bit longer


also hearns was very suceptiable to overtraining when people talk about gym rats he was the most loyal one...he was overtrained in every big fight hagler and leonard but in the bigger wiehgts it was easier for him to stay trim and thus being able to not overtrain.

[redrooster]

Jesus, you invented 'one man band' squire. Wasn't this your favourite album:


[Only registered and activated users can see links]


:good

:huh That means you're some dork who likes Paul Simon music?

[Lex]

When Hearns entered the pros all the pundits predicted he'd move up to middleweight or heavier within just a few years. He obviously had the frame for the extra weight.

He was pushing his limit at 147. So, sure, even a couple of pounds is a big deal for someone who can barely make 147.

To me, Hearns always looked awkward and gangly, which is typical of most tall, skinny, rangy fighters, including Bob Foster. Has nothing to do with their stamina or power. Paul Williams and Kelly Pavlik have similar physiques and styles.

One important factor in Leonard's win was his successful mid-round campaign for the ref to stop the fight. It wasn't like Larry Holmes begging the ref to end the carnage against Tex Cobb, who didn't know the meaning of quit. Leonard was grandstanding and took advantage of the benefit of a flurry of unanswered powderpuff shoeshine punches. (Bet that'll get a rise out of someone. :tong )

Frankly, tho', I think Leonard was on his way to kayoing Hearns anyway. Angelo Dundee had prodded Leonard into his mean gear where he was most dangerous.

[My dinner with Conteh]

:huh That means you're some dork who likes Paul Simon music?


Jesus, Joe Bugner had better comebacks that you.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Yeah, the 145 really affected Tommy- despite this he went twelve good, solid rounds. Funny how he 'gassed out'; when Leonard launched his go-for-broke attempt at victory- and succeeded. :huh


Now, the Hagler fight was different. Hearns was toally spent after three minutes!!! Yep, those three minutes were wild and crazy but a guy fighting for a world title should not be running out of steam that soon. Hearns admitted himself that he felt "tired" before the Hagler fight- although he didn't say that before the Leonard one. :yep

[ThinBlack]

Ray still would have taken Tommy out late, maybe in the final round, but with the same result.

[MagnaNasakki]

People ignore the damage Ray's body shots did to Tommy, and like to say that Tommy was drained and beat himself.

Ray beat the shit out of Hearns whenever he caught up to him. He'd have done the same with Hearns coming in two pounds heavier.

Weaker chin, less experience, undeveloped defensive skills. Ray was ALWAYS going to catch up to that particularly version of Tommy.

The 10-8 rounds were going to begin to pile up as well. Had Hearns dragged himself to the final bell that night, there is actually no guarantee he'd have won a decision. Ray was fast closing the gap.

[MAG1965]

You know it might have made a difference but it also might have made Tommy fight more reckless and leave himself open. Maybe if Tommy fought the exact same way and then in round 13 he didn't get tired, yeah he could of won the fight. Very possible. I do think that had the Thomas Hearns who fought Benitez fought Leonard he would have won a decision or maybe stopped Leonard late. He improved a lot in that year. Became more complete. Hearns could have kept winning at 154 for years had he been able to make weight. But he kept moving up to fight Hagler and win the light heavyweight titles.

[MagnaNasakki]

You know it might have made a difference but it also might have made Tommy fight more reckless and leave himself open. Maybe if Tommy fought the exact same way and then in round 13 he didn't get tired, yeah he could of won the fight. Very possible. I do think that had the Thomas Hearns who fought Benitez fought Leonard he would have won a decision or maybe stopped Leonard late. He improved a lot in that year. Became more complete. Hearns could have kept winning at 154 for years had he been able to make weight. But he kept moving up to fight Hagler and win the light heavyweight titles.

I actually think this is mostly sound.

The Hearns that beat Benitez was ready to beat Leonard, and he very well might have.

In their actual fight, Ray was just the better man. The second he decided to launch a determined, go for broke assault instead of just let the fight slip, Hearns came apart. Thats no coincidence.

A year or two later, he might have had the skills, experience, and wherewithal to stymy assaults like the one that so decisively took him out.

[MAG1965]

I actually think this is mostly sound.

The Hearns that beat Benitez was ready to beat Leonard, and he very well might have.

In their actual fight, Ray was just the better man. The second he decided to launch a determined, go for broke assault instead of just let the fight slip, Hearns came apart. Thats no coincidence.

A year or two later, he might have had the skills, experience, and wherewithal to stymy assaults like the one that so decisively took him out.
Tommy was great in 1981,however he was inexperienced. I remember Ray saying before that fight in an interview with I think George Michael the sports reporter that Tommy never experienced pain like saying he didn't have experience when things got tough. Kind of odd how as it turns out now Tommy has been in that position numerous times more than Ray since he had a much longer career.
When Hearns fought Benitez I think he was more rounded and knew how to win the rounds and pace himself. And Ray was brilliant inside and out of the ring. He knew that he would not beat Hearns in the rematch in 1982. Ray should have known that Tommy was not as washed up in 1989 as he thought he was. He overrated the Barkley and Kinchen fights. I never understood the Kinchen fight. I understand Tommy being stopped by Barkley, but Kinchen never had a huge punch and Tommy took bigger punches than that by other guys and stayed up.So when did go down with Kinchen, most people thought his chin was weakened. Then he fights Ray and takes solid punches. So I don't get it. Maybe Kinchen was a much harder puncher than Ray at 168.

[lufcrazy]

Leonard won the fight with heart and spirit.

2 pounds more doesn't stop the fire in leonard's heart when told he was blowing it.

Now give tommy half a stone in weight and blow leonard up a bit and I think hearns takes it on points.

[redrooster]

Tommy wouldve won on points.

[80s champs]

Tommy was great in 1981,however he was inexperienced. I remember Ray saying before that fight in an interview with I think George Michael the sports reporter that Tommy never experienced pain like saying he didn't have experience when things got tough. Kind of odd how as it turns out now Tommy has been in that position numerous times more than Ray since he had a much longer career.
When Hearns fought Benitez I think he was more rounded and knew how to win the rounds and pace himself. And Ray was brilliant inside and out of the ring. He knew that he would not beat Hearns in the rematch in 1982. Ray should have known that Tommy was not as washed up in 1989 as he thought he was. He overrated the Barkley and Kinchen fights. I never understood the Kinchen fight. I understand Tommy being stopped by Barkley, but Kinchen never had a huge punch and Tommy took bigger punches than that by other guys and stayed up.So when did go down with Kinchen, most people thought his chin was weakened. Then he fights Ray and takes solid punches. So I don't get it. Maybe Kinchen was a much harder puncher than Ray at 168.
Being a very big Hearns fan and watching his career since the first Leonard fight. I think his biggest problem was MOTIVATION as far as fair and electrifying performances. The second Leonard fight was evidence of that.And of course Duran (to reistablish his hit man image).There were several fights where he should have blown them away and others he surprised the fans with.(lt heavy champ his name escapes me)not dennis Andres