Sugar Ray Robinson !! Is the best ever !

[jaycuban]

Sugar Ray Robinson !! Is the best ever !

I never tought i can call someone greater than Ali in the Sport of Boxing, but after watching a bunch of SRR fights, my mind have change

how many of you agree that Sugar Ray Robinson is the Greatest of all time

In my mind he is the Greatest Pound 4 Pound fighter of all times.

[JC2006]

Sugar Ray Robinson !! Is the best ever !

I never tought i can call someone greater than Ali in the Sport of Boxing, but after watching a bunch of SRR fights, my mind have change

how many of you agree that Sugar Ray Robinson is the Greatest of all time

In my mind he is the Greatest Pound 4 Pound fighter of all times.

That is the consensus...

[tays001]

of course he is

[brooklyn1550]

I have him number 1 as well

[Thread Stealer]

Robinson and Armstrong are at the top of my list.

Armstrong didn't have the longevity, mainly due to his style, but what he did in a pretty short amount of time was just amazing.

[BewareofDawg]

Without question. It's the biggest joke in boxing when Hopkins and Floyd compare themselves to Ray Robinson. Neither one of them could carry the man's jockstrap let alone box as well as him.

[southpaw1974]

He was great, but he didn't have Floyd's defense. Robinson had more power P4P, but Floyd is as good or better in ever other area. Also, Floyd would never have lost or struggled with a tough, but limited fighter like La Motta no matter how much weight he gave up. Floyd at 150lbs outboxes La Motta at 160lb just like he did De La Hoya, and don't tell me La Motta was better than Oscar!!

[Astola]

I thought that the consensus p4p #1 was Svenn Ottke?

SRR isnt anywhere near Ottke talentwise.

-Fulltilt-

[safe_pa]

Si Ray is the best ever,
Every boxing fan knows this already though surely?

[Zakman]

Sugar Ray Robinson !! Is the best ever !

I never tought i can call someone greater than Ali in the Sport of Boxing, but after watching a bunch of SRR fights, my mind have change

how many of you agree that Sugar Ray Robinson is the Greatest of all time

In my mind he is the Greatest Pound 4 Pound fighter of all times.

Nice way to start of with a good, uncontroversial post. You won't get banned like that numnut who said lennox lewis was a punk for not giving a rematch to WLADIMIR Klitschko!!:lol:

There is very little disagreement among boxing fans as to whether Robinson was the greatest ever. Frankly, I wish there was a little more debate, sometimes I wonder whether Robinson is really unquestionably greater than anyone who's ever fought, or whether it's just sort of an orthodoxy that no one dares challenge. No doubt that he's right there, but there are others who might be considered.

[Thread Stealer]

He was great, but he didn't have Floyd's defense. Robinson had more power P4P, but Floyd is as good or better in ever other area. Also, Floyd would never have lost or struggled with a tough, but limited fighter like La Motta no matter how much weight he gave up. Floyd at 150lbs outboxes La Motta at 160lb just like he did De La Hoya, and don't tell me La Motta was better than Oscar!!

LaMotta was pretty crafty. He's gotten a reputation for being some powerful, defenseless brawler, but that was Robert De Niro, not Jake LaMotta.

Robinson didn't call him "Slippery Jake" for nothing.

[goldnarms]

Greb has a better resume, the only reason to rank SRR above greb is the lack of film for greb.

That argument works both ways. The lack of film footage for Greb also allows you to judge him SIMPLY based on his resume and lots of journalistic hyperbole.

When we have a chance to scrutinize him on film we have a chance to punch holes in that resume.

[acb]

He was great, but he didn't have Floyd's defense. Robinson had more power P4P, but Floyd is as good or better in ever other area. Also, Floyd would never have lost or struggled with a tough, but limited fighter like La Motta no matter how much weight he gave up. Floyd at 150lbs outboxes La Motta at 160lb just like he did De La Hoya, and don't tell me La Motta was better than Oscar!!

:lol: :patsch

Floyd does not throw one punch (jab, cross, upper, hook) better than Robinson whether it be one shot or in combination. Robinsons left hook was a thing of beauty and when he doubled and tripled it you could say it was one of the best combinations in the history of the game.

Robinson had superior power by long shot.

Robinsons best work was at welterweight and is not on film.

Robinson fought EVERYONE in his day.

Robinsons ability was what the term P4P was coined after.

Robinson was the more agressive fighter and although he didnt posess the defense of PBF, his chin (one of the best in boxing history) compensated for this fact.

You will be hard pressed to find anyone who saw both Robinson and PBF fight that would say that PBF was better.

Oh and a word about Lamotta. As someone esle mentioned he was craftier than he appeared, but fine, it you want to degrade his skills go ahead. But I tell you this, he had 100 times the balls, chin, and heart that DLH ever had on any given day, and he lost 5 of 6 to SRR. You say PBF would never lose to a fighter like Lamotta. PBF was one point from drawing with DLH. :deal

In sports one of the hardest things to do is win repeatedly against the same opponent. 5 of 6 against Lamotta is nothing to be ashamed of. :nono

[Zakman]

Greb was better than robinson, Pep looks better on film, armstrong 3 titles in 3 weightclasses etc.

I have abosolutely no problem with him being number 1, but there are tons of choices out there.

Thar's basically what I was saying - yes Robinson is clearly one of the leading candidates, but it shouldn't really be such a closed debate. There are several other guys, including all the guys you mentioned, as well as yes, Muhammed Ali, who are justifiably in the discussion.

Sometimes I get the feeling that people have just read this so often they believe it's gotta be true because of what they've been told. So they see what they expect to see.

[rendog67]

he is my number 1

[ron u.k.]

of course it should be debated and quite rightly not just accepted,but i think it's safe to say he was the number 1. in anything wether it be sport,music,literature,art or whatever there is an ultimate and i think he just happens to be boxings.

[Snakefist]

There isn't really any footage of Robinson at WW either (actually there isn't any his last fight with Jake was his first TV debut basically), so the Greb argument balances out. I mean Robinson fought many ATG's at WW, but all we have are stilled photos of his fights against competition such as Kid Gavilan (who was a great WW in his own right, one hell of a chin), that must've been one hell of a fight, wish I could see that one. I wonder why it took so long for them to put his fights on footag, his best years were as a WW.

[Thread Stealer]

There isn't really any footage of Robinson at WW either (actually there isn't any his last fight with Jake was his first TV debut basically), so the Greb argument balances out. I mean Robinson fought many ATG's at WW, but all we have are stilled photos of his fights against competition such as Kid Gavilan, that must've been one hell of a fight, wish I could see that one. I wonder why it took so long for them to put his fights on footag, his best years were as a WW.

There's actually some of Robinson at WW, but it's extremely grainy highlights.

At least the ones I've seen.

[acb]

There's actually some of Robinson at WW, but it's extremely grainy highlights.

At least the ones I've seen.

Do you know where I could find this... is it online?

[Thread Stealer]

Do you know where I could find this... is it online?

You can buy it here. This guy is one of the more pricey online sellers but he has a very good selection.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[gold_gloves]

this thread made me laugh, its like he was telling us about some fighter we had never heard of and putting it out there like a bold statement that he is the greatest....and yes, he is my number 1.

[Thread Stealer]

this thread made me laugh, its like he was telling us about some fighter we had never heard of and putting it out there like a bold statement that he is the greatest....and yes, he is my number 1.

Wayne Gretzky is the greatest hockey player ever!
Jerry Rice is the greatest wide receiver ever!
James Toney is the blackest man on the planet!
Lennox Lewis TKO 6 Vitali Klitschko!

[digiram]

Yap Yap!!!

[Thread Stealer]

If Ali didnt lose 3 1/2 years of scary prime years, the he would have been #1.

But I agree SRR is the best ever

What if Joe Louis didn't lose 3 years of his prime?

Robinson's time off when near his prime is different though, since that was by choice, not the U.S. goverment.

[Toopretty]

Greb is starting to be the boogeyman of boxing. I wont push him past #3 until I see a video of him doing something other then stretching...I want to see one round of this guy. I dont believe in ghosts, so Greb gets #3 all time for the conspiracy theory I have about him. No way he gets #1. Robinson would of whooped his ass. That is me just seeing him stretch like a stiff ass.

[Thread Stealer]

Ali's skill level was just unbelievable, I mean this guy was 6'4 showing us things that at that time potentials of human physiology

His talent/athleticism was more impressive than his actual skill and technique. That's not to say he lacked skill or anything, but his mistakes caught up to him after the layoff and luckily (and ultimately not so forunately) he had an excellent chin and could take it to the body like no other.

[Thread Stealer]

Ohh his technique was fine, just didnt rely on it with that much natural talent. Still the greatest heart of any champions

His skill/technique wasn't that great. It wasn't bad but it wasn't especially great either. He was always vulnerable to a left hook, going back to his early days. He attacked the body once every eon. He did things totally wrong on defense, such as leaning back from a punch with his hands down. His in-fighting strategies were to push the guy back in order to create room to throw his shots, or to clinch.

And heart is something that can't be measured.

How would you say one fighter, such as Muhammad Ali, has a greater heart than someone like Bobby Chacon or Matthew Saad Muhammad? Or vice versa?

It's not something easy to measure like "Zab Judah is quicker than Micky Ward" or "Felix Trinidad hit harder than Cory Stinks"

[Thread Stealer]

None of these guys had the pressure of Ali in and outside the ring. And what did he do??? after that left hook from Frazier that would have knock out a horse???

You cannot look at Ali as a fighter and not take into consideration what was going on with his outside life. That is why he is revered the way he is now. I tell you not just because of his talent inside the ring.


What does his outside life have to do with his technique in the ring?

And as for that showing he has more heart, what, Bobby Chacon didn't have serious, serious problems outside the ring? Please.


Anyway, I remember someone interviewed him once perhaps Bert sugar asking him about Tyson, Louis and all other heavies and how hed fare. He said "You saw me in '63 didnt you? guy says yes..."Do you think anyone could have beaten me"

Nuff said

And what does this prove?

Ali didn't even peak until after 1963 anyway. He was still green and improving, and looked bad against Doug Jones, not to mention nearly getting KO'd by Henry Cooper. He was at his best from 65-67 as he had more experience.

[ripcity]

I'm one of the few people who dose not have Sugar Ray Robinson #1 All Time Great. I basicly make my alltime rankings based on talent and acomplishment. All of which is opinion. I have Pernell Whitaker #1. I beleve his talent was at the very least as good as any one else's and posibily the best ever. He was undisputied lightweight champion and also the besr Jr. Welaterweight (it is my opionion that he would have beaten Julio Cesar Chavez in 1992)and Weltaerweight of his time If the championship of the world was not fragmented he would have been champion at those weights also. He also added a Jr. Middleweight tittle also. If he had more knockouts he would probbly rank higher on your list. I have Benny Leonard at #2 I have to trust what I read as there is not a lot of film of him to see. His skill leavel was posibily the best the sport has seen. 7 1/2 years as lightweight champion defending aganist some very good chalengers. I have Leonard above Whitaker at light weight and would probbly have him above him pound 4 pound if he did not foul out aganist Jack Britton when they fought in a Welterweight championship match. #3 is Sugar Ray Robinson I'm not saying he wasn't great. His skills were amazing. He was also hampion at welterweight and middle weight five times. I'm more impresed by what Whitaker and Leonard were able to acomplish. Just my honest opinion.

[Stonehands89]

there's aboslutely no way to know that. stop talking out your ass.

Really? And yet you arrive at a conclusion just as miraculous with your "Greb was better than robinson" post earlier. How do you know that he was? There's as much film of Greb as there is of Ali during the 3 year lay-off.

[DaHead242]

I have Homicidal Hank ranked at 1, SRR at 2

[Drew101]

I have Homicidal Hank ranked at 1, SRR at 2

Yeah, you could make that case very easily. Essentially, you could make the case that Greb, SRR, Armstrong, and, possibly Duran all warrant mention for the top slot, based on their longevity and accomplishments.

[enquirer]

Brave post ripcity,i respect a guy that can go against the crowd and gave some reasonable reasons for doing so...

[ripcity]

Brave post ripcity,i respect a guy that can go against the crowd and gave some reasonable reasons for doing so...
Thanks I appricite the complement.

[Ted Stickles]

IF you want to have a perfect fighting machine you go get Ray Robinson....he had it all,speed,power,chin,stamins,what more could you ask for..And yes he was more offensive with his fighting but like someone said earlier the best defense is a good offense....And Floyd gets hurt by Jake, but he would beat Deniro

[JohnThomas1]

there's aboslutely no way to know that. stop talking out your ass.

So says the guy that rates Tyson number 1 ever. Funny.

[JohnThomas1]

Robinson's the man for me, i've seen all his filmed efforts, great fighter.

[Drew101]

I see no way you can make a case for Duran honestly, great as he was. He was not the greatest. Unless you wanna talk head to head or something like that, but based on accomplishments and resume, nope.

We'll agree to disagree on this, because based on longevity, accomplishments, and competition, Duran's resume is indeed worthy of consideration for the top slot. He makes my Top 5 all-time, based on how impressive he was at various stages of his career.

[Claypole]

I thought that the consensus p4p #1 was Svenn Ottke?

SRR isnt anywhere near Ottke talentwise.

-Fulltilt-I take it you are joking, right? Or was there another Sven Ottke many years ago that I have never heard of?

[rendog67]

he is my no 1

[mrbassie]

He was great, but he didn't have Floyd's defense. Robinson had more power P4P, but Floyd is as good or better in ever other area. Also, Floyd would never have lost or struggled with a tough, but limited fighter like La Motta no matter how much weight he gave up. Floyd at 150lbs outboxes La Motta at 160lb just like he did De La Hoya, and don't tell me La Motta was better than Oscar!!

You're talking bollocks. He didn't only have power over Mayweather. Chin-durability overall in fact, speed too, footwork, combination punching, stamina, will to win, will to always go for the knockout. Mayweather is harder to hit than Robinson was, largely due to him being negative and all to happy to win on points than to look for the knockout. Defense is the onlt thing Mayweather has over Robinson. Your argument is upside down.
LaMotta was limited? Stop watching DeNiro and see the guy box for real

[acb]

You're talking bollocks. He didn't only have power over Mayweather. Chin-durability overall in fact, speed too, footwork, combination punching, stamina, will to win, will to always go for the knockout. Mayweather is harder to hit than Robinson was, largely due to him being negative and all to happy to win on points than to look for the knockout. Defense is the onlt thing Mayweather has over Robinson. Your argument is upside down.
LaMotta was limited? Stop watching DeNiro and see the guy box for real

Yep what I told him a few days ago on this thread.

Dont expect a response. :deal