Did Hector Camacho really outbox Roberto Duran in 1996?

[MRBILL]

I admit, I am a 'Duran' nutgrabber.... I can't help it..... AND! I was super PISSED back in 1996 when the judges stole the decision from Duran and gave it to Hector Camacho, so a fight (Camacho-Leonard) could be made... I enjoyed the concept of "Camacho Vs. Leonard" back in 1997, but I still contend that Camacho received a gift from the judges in 1996.... Peace...:twisted:

MR.BILL

[Stonehands89]

This is repost from a couple of months ago:

Duran was 45 years old when he fought 34 year old Camacho. Camacho was on something like a 15 fight winning streak and Duran was coming off two fat showings against Paz.

Duran was 158 for three weeks before the bout -and came in at 157.

I just dug up that bout tonight and watched and scored it and had Duran ahead by at least 3 rounds. The judges were unknowns and were way, way off. It was the last time in a bout that Duran gave a damn.

Duran showed not only technique, but speed. It was quite a surprise if you saw it. After dropping the first two rounds, he adjusted and began establishing a jab (!), punching to the body (which quickly took away Camacho's legs) and to the head, and throwing straight right hands that were surprisingly quick.

He even compensated for his lack of balance and made it work for him by bending at the waist to his right, throwing sneak hooks when Camacho was in range and then coming back immediately with a right hook or uppercut to the ribs. When he got Camacho on the ropes you had to blink because he was using the same moves, albeit slower that he did 16 years previously in Montreal.

Masterful stuff.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[rekcutnevets]

Originally posted by Stonehands89
Camacho was on something like a 15 fight winning streak and Duran was coming off two fat showings against Paz.
I don't know if you meant to say fat or flat in the above statement. I thought Duran did well against Pazienza in their first meeting. I believe Pazienza fought a smarter fight in their rematch.

I totally agree with what you had to say about Duran vs. Camacho. Duran was the leanest I had seen him in years.

[Stonehands89]

I don't know if you meant to say fat or flat in the above statement. I thought Duran did well against Pazienza in their first meeting. I believe Pazienza fought a smarter fight in their rematch.

I totally agree with what you had to say about Duran vs. Camacho. Duran was the leanest I had seen him in years.
Pazienza himself dismisses these wins. He knows Duran wasn't Duran in there. His honesty reflects well on him there.

Duran was fat in Pazienza I and II. He did slightly better in I, but he wasn't inspired and he wasn't in shape. Duran was not able to compete against top level guys unless he was under 160. Under 160. Take that to the bank. His body could not hold more than that weight and still be in shape enough to fight hard for 12 rounds. The record bears this out.

[arther1045]

I don't know if you meant to say fat or flat in the above statement. I thought Duran did well against Pazienza in their first meeting. I believe Pazienza fought a smarter fight in their rematch.

I totally agree with what you had to say about Duran vs. Camacho. Duran was the leanest I had seen him in years.

What I remember about the fight was what great shape Duran was in. I always look for this fight on youtube but nothing yet.

[MRBILL]

This is repost from a couple of months ago:

Duran was 45 years old when he fought 34 year old Camacho. Camacho was on something like a 15 fight winning streak and Duran was coming off two fat showings against Paz.

Duran was 158 for three weeks before the bout -and came in at 157.

I just dug up that bout tonight and watched and scored it and had Duran ahead by at least 3 rounds. The judges were unknowns and were way, way off. It was the last time in a bout that Duran gave a damn.

Duran showed not only technique, but speed. It was quite a surprise if you saw it. After dropping the first two rounds, he adjusted and began establishing a jab (!), punching to the body (which quickly took away Camacho's legs) and to the head, and throwing straight right hands that were surprisingly quick.

He even compensated for his lack of balance and made it work for him by bending at the waist to his right, throwing sneak hooks when Camacho was in range and then coming back immediately with a right hook or uppercut to the ribs. When he got Camacho on the ropes you had to blink because he was using the same moves, albeit slower that he did 16 years previously in Montreal.

Masterful stuff.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

That photo is from the 2001 rematch.... Duran was 50 and Camacho was a mere 39 yrs old....... It was a good fight for two aged warriors, but no where near as classic as the '96 fight..... Peace...

MR.BILL:smooch

[MRBILL]

Bollocks.... R.D. did train his ass off for Vinny Paz in the initial 1994 encounter in Las Vegas. The bout was contracted for 165 pounds, due to Paz's request.... Duran couldn't turn down the money and offer and went ahead with the fight, weighing-in at 163 3/4 pounds... Trust me, at age 42, Duran was actually in damn good shape--considering the contracted weight was concerned.... However, I did not like Duran at all at 167 3/4 pounds for the 1995 rematch, which had a contracted weight limit of the full 168 pounds.... Both times Duran appeared naturally trained, while Paz seemingly was juiced....

YES! In 1996, at 157 pounds, Roberto Duran was in tip-top shape for a 45 year old man with dyed jet-black hair.... Duran once again had back muscles and tone to his body for Hector Camacho in 1996... But by 2001, R.D. was up to 164 pounds and 50 years old, and slower than molasses for the leaner 39 year old Camacho.... Cheers....:rasta

MR.BILL

[rekcutnevets]

Originally posted by Stonehands89
Pazienza himself dismisses these wins. He knows Duran wasn't Duran in there. His honesty reflects well on him there.

Duran was fat in Pazienza I and II. He did slightly better in I, but he wasn't inspired and he wasn't in shape. Duran was not able to compete against top level guys unless he was under 160. Under 160. Take that to the bank. His body could not hold more than that weight and still be in shape enough to fight hard for 12 rounds. The record bears this out.
I did not realize that saying he did well against Pazienza means that I think 165 lbs. was a good weight for Duran.

[Stonehands89]

Bollocks.... R.D. did train his ass off for Vinny Paz in the initial 1994 encounter in Las Vegas. The bout was contracted for 165 pounds, due to Paz's request.... Duran couldn't turn down the money and offer and went ahead with the fight, weighing-in at 163 3/4 pounds... Trust me, at age 42, Duran was actually in damn good shape--considering the contracted weight was concerned....
Duran was not in "damn good shape." That's idle nonsense. If you insist that he was in fighting shape for Paz, you'll only demonstrate that you don't know much about your favorite fighter, so I wouldn't pursue that if I were you. Duran never trained hard at any point for any fight after Hagler unless he cared to. And I'll tell you precisely those fights after Hagler where he actually cared enough to train hard:

Sims -159
Barkley -156
Leonard III -158
Camacho I -157
Joppy -159 (though by that point, it didn't matter)

...and the lower his weight was, the better he was. Again, his body didn't allow him to be fighting ready north of 160. You can forget the rest of the fights between 1984 and 2001. Duran trained lackadaisically at best for the lot of them -and this was a consistent pattern after ~ 1972; the difference is that when he was young and strong and his metabolism was high it didn't matter as much.

It's time for you to trust me. If Duran got himself fighting ready for that fight, he would have beaten Paz -even in his 40s. Duran had alot of arrogance about his abilities and often waved off fighters he felt were beneath him. Hell, even No Mas was partly arrogance. He waved off Leonard in New Orleans because he felt not only embarrassed, but also that it was beneath him to suffer a defeat at the hands of that "clown" Leonard. When his trainers (and he effectively had none after Arcel left for good after Benitez) came ringing for roadwork before the Laing fight, the Suero fight, the Fitzgerald fight, the Menefee fight, et al. -he waved them off most of the time. He did just enough to be able to coast through a fight and relied on his craftiness and heavy hands to deal with the novices he faced. He did not fear Pazienza and was not inspired about that fight. He didn't train hard and his flabby abs proved it.

[MRBILL]

Look fellas, I know damn well that Roberto Duran was better off at weights just under 160 pounds during the later part of his career... Christ, Duran never saw 154 ever again after he got smoked by Tommy Hearns in 1984... Basically, for the last 17 years of his career, Roberto Duran was resigned to fighting at either Middleweight (160) or Super-Middleweight (168)..... I never really cared for Roberto Duran fighting above 160 pounds.... I know Duran was not in proper shape to fight on the world class level there... But, however, for Vinny Paz in 1994, Duran was pretty solid and toned at 163 3/4 pounds.... Vinny Paz was very bulky and solid / juiced at an even 165 pounds... Anyway, that version of Roberto Duran was old, but in good enough shape to hang tough with the 31 year old juiced up Vinny Paz in Vegas.... Duran was in his best shape since his "Rubber" match with Ray Leonard in 1989..... That was FIVE years earlier... I thought Roberto Duran was HORRIBLE in his 1991 undercard fight with Pat Lawlor... That was gross... Again, Duran was in-shape for a 42 year old man for Vinny Paz in 1994, and Duran came to fight and beat Vinny Paz, as well... But, he ran outta gas after 8 or 9 rds., and then finished poorly... Still, Paz was pretty sliced and diced, and dripping blood after 12 rds; while Duran just looked tired / gased out...

NOW! Overall... Roberto Duran was in his best condition of the 90s decade for his 1996 fight with Hector Camacho. The 157 pounds that Duran carried into the ring was the BEST he could do for a fighter age 45.... Roberto Duran gave Camacho a good going over in that PPV fight.... I was livid when the judges butt-reamed Duran on the cards...:bbb

MR.BILL

EXTRA:

Considering that Roberto Duran began training for his 1990s comeback in the Spring of 1992 weighing over 200 + pounds and looking like a 41 year old slob, the weights of 164, 165, 166 & 167 pounds were really not all that bad when you consider what he looks and weighs during his retirements / vacations..... I believe Duran was 165 for his 1992 bout with Tony Biglen... Duran got good reviews for a guy over 40 and fighting as a Super-Middle......

[Stonehands89]

...Duran was in his best shape since his "Rubber" match with Ray Leonard in 1989..... That was FIVE years earlier...
Even if Duran was in "his best shape since Leonard III" -it doesn't mean he was in fighting shape. Because he wasn't...

Again, Duran was in-shape for a 42 year old man for Vinny Paz in 1994,
Duran was in shape for a 42 year old man. He was not in shape for a 42 year old fighter. He was in spectacular shape for a 45 year old civilian and was infighting shape when he fought Camacho in '96.

and Duran came to fight and beat Vinny Paz, as well... But, he ran outta gas after 8 or 9 rds., and then finished poorly...
--because he wasn't in fighting shape.

Considering that Roberto Duran began training for his 1990s comeback in the Spring of 1992 weighing over 200 + pounds and looking like a 41 year old slob, the weights of 164, 165, 166 & 167 pounds were really not all that bad when you consider what he looks and weighs during his retirements / vacations..... I believe Duran was 165 for his 1992 bout with Tony Biglen... Duran got good reviews for a guy over 40 and fighting as a Super-Middle......
Tony Biglen. Duran didn't give a damn about the Tony Biglen fight. And of course coming in at 165 is better than coming straight in without so much of a sit-up or a sauna after 5 months of buffets and beer and a belly that looked like a witch's brew. "Wasn't that bad" -isn't fighting shape!

Duran didn't feel as though he had to train hard to fight Biglen and LeBlanc. He only need to throw a few good punches at poor Terry Thomas to snap his nose. And he was right! His skill and experience would carry him through against these guys. Duran didn't even think he had to train like a freak to fight Hearns because he thought Hearns was a chicken after his Leonard loss. And he took Vinnie lightly too -twice! So he did minimum training to look half ready. But don't confuse these poor tendencies of his with his being well-trained and fighting ready... Because he wasn't. And when he made this mistake against guys more serious than friggin Ariel Cruz, he paid for it with sometimes embarrassing losses.

[MRBILL]

Dude... I hear you, but I ain't feeling you.... 40 + year old fighters can't whip themselves into peak shape as if they were 26 years old again... 42 year old fighters need to take it easy as well as train hard during camp... Roberto Duran at age 42, had several "Warm-Up" fights in 1992 / '93 prior to meeting Vinny Paz in June of 1994. Considering that team Duran agreed to fight Vinny Paz in the neighborhood of 165 pounds, I think and feel that Duran was in the best shape he could've been in under the circumstances involving the contracted weight limit of 165 pounds... Roberto Duran was in good fighting shape for a dude 42 years old and fighting in the mid 160s... Christ, Roberto Duran was 164 pounds just three months prior to the 'Paz' fight when he KO'd and broke the nose of human tomato can Terry Thomas in about four rds on the USA network... I know 161 to 168 is NOT peak or vintage Roberto Duran fighting weight, but to say he was in poor shape or no shape at all is utterly insane.... Lotsa' 42 year olds would love to have the chance to spend time training like Roberto Duran did in 1992, '93 & '94 instead of spending eight hours a day slaving for sombodies goddamn company in order to the bills, etc.... That's all I'm saying....:hat

MR.BILL

EXTRA:

Also, crazy as it seems, but hardly anybody ever comes in light these days when a fight is contracted for a maximum weight of 165 pounds... Team Duran knew that Paz was bulky and gonna come in near or at the weight limit of 165..... I'm not sure that Duran would've benefited any better had he weighed 158 and gave up SEVEN pounds to the newfound muscular Vinny Paz.?.? I think Team Duran initially felt 162 to 163 would be best for Roberto at that time... Just a thought...

[MRBILL]

Not to rag, but Duran did NOT look extremely fit and solid at 159 pounds for his bout with Robbie Sims... Sure, Duran was down in weight from his two aftermath 'Hearns' fights in '86 when he fought in South America weighing in the mid 160s to prepare for Sims, but Duran looked lethargic after round 7 against Sims and had to suck-up one last burst in about the 9th round to rock Sims and still just fall short for a loss.... I wanted Duran to get the nod, but he needed more time to prepare for Robbie Sims....

MR.BILL

P.S.

Duran was inactive in 1985 and I'm sure he was a PIG in that year.... Easily over 200 pounds...

[MRBILL]

Even if Duran was in "his best shape since Leonard III" -it doesn't mean he was in fighting shape. Because he wasn't...


Duran was in shape for a 42 year old man. He was not in shape for a 42 year old fighter. He was in spectacular shape for a 45 year old civilian and was infighting shape when he fought Camacho in '96.


--because he wasn't in fighting shape.


Tony Biglen. Duran didn't give a damn about the Tony Biglen fight. And of course coming in at 165 is better than coming straight in without so much of a sit-up or a sauna after 5 months of buffets and beer and a belly that looked like a witch's brew. "Wasn't that bad" -isn't fighting shape!

Duran didn't feel as though he had to train hard to fight Biglen and LeBlanc. He only need to throw a few good punches at poor Terry Thomas to snap his nose. And he was right! His skill and experience would carry him through against these guys. Duran didn't even think he had to train like a freak to fight Hearns because he thought Hearns was a chicken after his Leonard loss. And he took Vinnie lightly too -twice! So he did minimum training to look half ready. But don't confuse these poor tendencies of his with his being well-trained and fighting ready... Because he wasn't. And when he made this mistake against guys more serious than friggin Ariel Cruz, he paid for it with sometimes embarrassing losses.

Stones,

Considering that Duran was coming back in 1992 from an embarrassing TKO loss to Pat Lawlor in March of '91, I think its safe to assume that while Tony Biglen was NOT a world beater, Duran still trained and took the bout seriously in Sept. of 1992.... Another loss for Duran at that time would've been crucial; Duran had to beat Biglen regardless of Tony Biglen's reputation... Cheers...:hi:

MR.BILL

[arther1045]

[quote=MRBILL]Stones,

Considering that Duran was coming back in 1992 from an embarrassing TKO loss to Pat Lawlor in March of '91, I think its safe to assume that while Tony Biglen was NOT a world beater, Duran still trained and took the bout seriously in Sept. of 1992.... Another loss for Duran at that time would've been crucial; Duran had to beat Biglen regardless of Tony Biglen's reputation... Cheers...:hi:


Funny you should bring up the Biglen fight. The night before that fight Duran was honored in a town about an hour away from where the fight was supposed to take place. It was at a bar that I used to go to. He was late arriving and wasn't there by the time I went home. When I was walking to my car a couple people were walking right past me and when I looked one of them was Duran. He had a sportcoat on but I rememeber thinking that he looked thin and in really good shaoe. Then a couple days later when they showed a picture in the paper of his fight with Biglen he looked bloated and in terrible shape.

[MRBILL]

[quote=MRBILL]Stones,

Considering that Duran was coming back in 1992 from an embarrassing TKO loss to Pat Lawlor in March of '91, I think its safe to assume that while Tony Biglen was NOT a world beater, Duran still trained and took the bout seriously in Sept. of 1992.... Another loss for Duran at that time would've been crucial; Duran had to beat Biglen regardless of Tony Biglen's reputation... Cheers...:hi:


Funny you should bring up the Biglen fight. The night before that fight Duran was honored in a town about an hour away from where the fight was supposed to take place. It was at a bar that I used to go to. He was late arriving and wasn't there by the time I went home. When I was walking to my car a couple people were walking right past me and when I looked one of them was Duran. He had a sportcoat on but I rememeber thinking that he looked thin and in really good shaoe. Then a couple days later when they showed a picture in the paper of his fight with Biglen he looked bloated and in terrible shape.

Well, again, 165 was a push for Duran... YET! He was better there than say 200 lbs.... But I have the 'Biglen' fight on tape, and in truth, I thought Duran looked good, compared to his '91 effort against Pat Lawlor...... Duran was horrid for Lawlor..... Plus, as Duran aged, his family genes' came into play... Duran has some fatty tissue steming from his family history... As a youth, with excercise, he could hide it; not so as an aging fighter... Peace...

MR.BILL:cool:

[salsanchezfan]

[quote=arther1045]

Well, again, 165 was a push for Duran... YET! He was better there than say 200 lbs.... But I have the 'Biglen' fight on tape, and in truth, I thought Duran looked good, compared to his '91 effort against Pat Lawlor...... Duran was horrid for Lawlor..... Plus, as Duran aged, his family genes' came into play... Duran has some fatty tissue steming from his family history... As a youth, with excercise, he could hide it; not so as an aging fighter... Peace...

MR.BILL:cool:



:blood

[MRBILL]

[quote=MRBILL]



:blood

What's wrong?:patsch

[Stonehands89]

Dude... I hear you, but I ain't feeling you.... 40 + year old fighters can't whip themselves into peak shape as if they were 26 years old again... 42 year old fighters need to take it easy as well as train hard during camp... Roberto Duran at age 42, had several "Warm-Up" fights in 1992 / '93 prior to meeting Vinny Paz in June of 1994. Considering that team Duran agreed to fight Vinny Paz in the neighborhood of 165 pounds, I think and feel that Duran was in the best shape he could've been in under the circumstances involving the contracted weight limit of 165 pounds... Roberto Duran was in good fighting shape for a dude 42 years old and fighting in the mid 160s... Christ, Roberto Duran was 164 pounds just three months prior to the 'Paz' fight when he KO'd and broke the nose of human tomato can Terry Thomas in about four rds on the USA network... I know 161 to 168 is NOT peak or vintage Roberto Duran fighting weight, but to say he was in poor shape or no shape at all is utterly insane.... Lotsa' 42 year olds would love to have the chance to spend time training like Roberto Duran did in 1992, '93 & '94 instead of spending eight hours a day slaving for sombodies goddamn company in order to the bills, etc.... That's all I'm saying....:hat

MR.BILL
I think that you make alot of excuses for Duran's loss of interest in training hard. It is understandable for a guy who'd doing it for over 20 years, but you are confusing being in fighting shape with not always having to be in fighting shape to whip journeyman.

"Being in shape" is not the same as being in fighting shape.

EXTRA:

Also, crazy as it seems, but hardly anybody ever comes in light these days when a fight is contracted for a maximum weight of 165 pounds... Team Duran knew that Paz was bulky and gonna come in near or at the weight limit of 165..... I'm not sure that Duran would've benefited any better had he weighed 158 and gave up SEVEN pounds to the newfound muscular Vinny Paz.?.? I think Team Duran initially felt 162 to 163 would be best for Roberto at that time... Just a thought...
And they'd have been stupid if they felt like that. Duran at 158 would have been in shape to fight hard instead of in spurts, throwing one shot at a time most of the time, and on leaden legs.

... and there effectively was no "Team Duran". No one was telling Duran how to train or what to do --not since Freddie Brown anyway, and even he had problems.

[Stonehands89]

Not to rag, but Duran did NOT look extremely fit and solid at 159 pounds for his bout with Robbie Sims... Sure, Duran was down in weight from his two aftermath 'Hearns' fights in '86 when he fought in South America weighing in the mid 160s to prepare for Sims, but Duran looked lethargic after round 7 against Sims and had to suck-up one last burst in about the 9th round to rock Sims and still just fall short for a loss.... I wanted Duran to get the nod, but he needed more time to prepare for Robbie Sims....

MR.BILL

P.S.

Duran was inactive in 1985 and I'm sure he was a PIG in that year.... Easily over 200 pounds...
Duran was in far, far better shape for Sims than he was for Pazienza. He lost a close split in an important fight that he cared about.

[Stonehands89]

Stones,

Considering that Duran was coming back in 1992 from an embarrassing TKO loss to Pat Lawlor in March of '91, I think its safe to assume that while Tony Biglen was NOT a world beater, Duran still trained and took the bout seriously in Sept. of 1992.... Another loss for Duran at that time would've been crucial; Duran had to beat Biglen regardless of Tony Biglen's reputation... Cheers...:hi:

MR.BILL
Duran could have tied one hand behind his back and still beat Biglen.

[MRBILL]

Speaking of Duran in lousy fighting shape, I saw him look fat and bloated on the USA network in late 1994 against a Redneck fighter named Heath Todd enroute to a mid-round stoppage... Duran used Todd as a "Warm-Up" for Paz in 1995....:scaredas:

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

I just reviewed "Duran-Camacho 2" from 2001 earlier, and it is quite obvious that Duran was not in the same shape as he was "5" years earlier. R.D. was 164 pounds and had none of the muscle in his body tone that he displayed in 1996. This time, Hector Camacho won the "Boxing" match without a doubt...:twisted:

MR.BILL

[Robbi]

Duran was in far, far better shape for Sims than he was for Pazienza. He lost a close split in an important fight that he cared about.

Stonehands. How did you score Duran-Simms? I only have the highlights of the fight. It looked 'touch and go' on if the decision was correct. Close fight on the official cards.

[MRBILL]

Stonehands. How did you score Duran-Simms? I only have the highlights of the fight. It looked 'touch and go' on if the decision was correct. Close fight on the official cards.


I saw the fight live in Vegas back in '86, and I own a tape of it as well. Roberto Duran was accurate but conservative, while Robbie Sims threw the flashy more slapsy type punches... In terms of points, well, okay, Sims scored well... In terms of well placed single shots, Duran was better there... All in all, the judges went with the busier Sims over 10 rds... Christ, it was hotter than hell on that eve.... I hate the summer heat....:fire

MR.BILL

[Stonehands89]

Stonehands. How did you score Duran-Simms? I only have the highlights of the fight. It looked 'touch and go' on if the decision was correct. Close fight on the official cards.
I saw the fight some years ago now and remember how close it was. I couldn't tell you my scorecard but if I remember right, I thought it could have gone either way. Duran cared, but he was not "on fire" as he was three years later or three years before -against more formidable MWs. Duran was one of the those guys who fought "to" the skills of his opponents as he aged. He trained just enough to win... and was often off in his estimation. To say the least.

[MRBILL]

Robbie Sims was part "Pro" and part "Con." Back in 1986 / '87, I thought Robbie Sims was destined to be Middleweight champion.. He was in his prime and looking good in the ring... However, he got exposed by Sumbu Kalambay in a title fight, and Sims began to slide downhill there...

As for the 'Duran' fight of June 1986, well, Sims won on pitty-patty shots, along with some stiff punches, as well... Duran at age 35, and 159 pounds, was NOT able to keep up the pace for 10 rds in the heat against a younger / natural Middleweight...

I wish I had a clean copy of Duran's 1987 comeback win over Juan Carlos Giminez. Duran almost got iced in the opening stanza, but Duran roared back to control Giminez to win the decision over 10 rds... That was late 1987... Peace...

MR.BILL

[Jack Presscot]

Pazienza himself dismisses these wins. He knows Duran wasn't Duran in there. His honesty reflects well on him there.

Duran was fat in Pazienza I and II. He did slightly better in I, but he wasn't inspired and he wasn't in shape. Duran was not able to compete against top level guys unless he was under 160. Under 160. Take that to the bank. His body could not hold more than that weight and still be in shape enough to fight hard for 12 rounds. The record bears this out.I had Duran winning the Pazienza I fight by about 2 points, back in 1994. What pissed me off is that in Round 5 he scored a legitimate knockdown, that is a 10-8 round, and it got scored 10-10????? WTF. (Giampa, Roth and Moretti, the Three Blind Mice) He also scored a flash KD in 2 or 3 and it was incorrectly ruled a slip, although Duran's fist made contact with Paz's body, and even "The Champ" Sean O Grady saw that. The Judges were totally fixed that night. Duran won that fight, and beat the piss out of Camacho the 1st time as well. It's as if someone in power was angry at his Legendary Status and was punishing him. :fire

[MRBILL]

I had Duran winning the Pazienza I fight by about 2 points, back in 1994. What pissed me off is that in Round 5 he scored a legitimate knockdown, that is a 10-8 round, and it got scored 10-10????? WTF. (Giampa, Roth and Moretti, the Three Blind Mice) He also scored a flash KD in 2 or 3 and it was incorrectly ruled a slip, although Duran's fist made contact with Paz's body, and even "The Champ" Sean O Grady saw that. The Judges were totally fixed that night. Duran won that fight, and beat the piss out of Camacho the 1st time as well. It's as if someone in power was angry at his Legendary Status and was punishing him. :fire

F@#kin' A. Skippy....:thumbsup

MR.BILL

[Stonehands89]

I had Duran winning the Pazienza I fight by about 2 points, back in 1994. What pissed me off is that in Round 5 he scored a legitimate knockdown, that is a 10-8 round, and it got scored 10-10????? WTF. (Giampa, Roth and Moretti, the Three Blind Mice) He also scored a flash KD in 2 or 3 and it was incorrectly ruled a slip, although Duran's fist made contact with Paz's body, and even "The Champ" Sean O Grady saw that. The Judges were totally fixed that night. Duran won that fight, and beat the piss out of Camacho the 1st time as well. It's as if someone in power was angry at his Legendary Status and was punishing him. :fire
Duran-Camacho I is a thorn in the butt of my life.

Pazienza I ...? Well, Duran wasn't exactly fit and ready for that one and his sluggish performance demonstrated that. Your take is interesting but I didn't have much of a problem with the decision, irregardless of the knockdown(s).

[Robbi]

Duran-Camacho I is a thorn in the butt of my life.

Duran getting the win in that one would have upped his ATG's status, slightly. Considering his age at the time of the fight. It would have been the win which stood out the most, post Barkley.

[MRBILL]

Duran getting the win in that one would have upped his ATG's status, slightly. Considering his age at the time of the fight. It would have been the win which stood out the most, post Barkley.

As it is, MOST fans give Duran the overall nod for that fight with Camacho in '96.:happy

MR.BILL

[Jack Presscot]

Duran-Camacho I is a thorn in the butt of my life.

Pazienza I ...? Well, Duran wasn't exactly fit and ready for that one and his sluggish performance demonstrated that. Your take is interesting but I didn't have much of a problem with the decision, irregardless of the knockdown(s).Had those three Faggot Judges, Moretti, Giamp and Roth learned how to score a round correctly, Duran should have had 2, 10-8 rounds, going ino the 12th, which he also won. He would have been ahead at LEAST 116-112.:fire

[MRBILL]

Had those three Faggot Judges, Moretti, Giamp and Roth learned how to score a round correctly, Duran should have had 2, 10-8 rounds, going ino the 12th, which he also won. He would have been ahead at LEAST 116-112.:fire

F@#king A. Skippy....:p

MR.BILL

[Stonehands89]

Had those three Faggot Judges, Moretti, Giamp and Roth learned how to score a round correctly, Duran should have had 2, 10-8 rounds, going ino the 12th, which he also won. He would have been ahead at LEAST 116-112.:fire
You're overdoing it. And Moretti, Giampi, and Roth are pretty solid judges.

[MRBILL]

You're overdoing it. And Moretti, Giampi, and Roth are pretty solid judges.

Stones, I gave Duran the edge by a close shave.. I'll credit Camacho for his speed and flashy punches, but Duran landed some good thunder midway in the bout and until the end of 12 rds.... Duran won on my card by a couple of points.... Peace...:good

MR.BILL

[Robbi]

.... Peace...:good

MR.BILL

In the middle east. :good

[Jack Presscot]

You're overdoing it. And Moretti, Giampi, and Roth are pretty solid judges.If I run into any of the three gay-asses in Vegas, they will be wearing my beer on their expensive suits, bought by "shady" money.

[MRBILL]

Duran had good body tone in 1996 at 157 pounds....... It was his best look since he fought Vinny Paz in 1994, but Duran was too heavy at 163 in that initial 'Paz' fight.... Prior to the Pazienza fight of '94, it was against Ray Leonard in 1989 at 158 pounds. However, Duran, like Braxton against Spinks in '83, displayed little to no fire power at all against SRL.... Cheerio...

MR.BILL

EXTRA:

Duran's "Runner Up" was against Jorge Castro in Panama in 1997....