Hvywt John Ruiz's all-time standing

[Longhhorn71]

As a Hvywt Champ, where do you rank Ruiz?

Is he the worst?

[WhataRock]

No...but pretty close.

He gets pretty underrated but I understand why, he was a very average fighter who did above average things because it seems refs did not know how to properly deal with his approach and he more then likely got a lot of help from King who tried unsuccessfully to tap into the Latino market to get them to watch the heavies.

[Loewe]

As a Hvywt Champ, where do you rank Ruiz?

Is he the worst?

Not by far. Look at his body of work. He and Byrd have the best resume after 2000 with the exception of Wlad - perhaps. He always showed up in shape, gave always his best, tried everything to win, was humble an nice outside of it and does very much for others, he was also very respectful and did no trashtalk and he always tried to fight the best. Yes, he had an ugly style, yes his team tried to win fights outside of the ring but overall I think he was quite a good champ. Imo he was one of the great hws of his time alongside Wlad and Byrd.

[ChrisPontius]

As a Hvywt Champ, where do you rank Ruiz?

Is he the worst?

No, there are far worse fighters. L. Spinks was little more than a journeyman after his fights with Ali. Briggs was game against Lewis, but probably should've lost the fight with Foreman. The Liakhovic win was excellent though. Willard would've lost to Johnson on basically any other ruleset of the 20th century, and that was a fat and old version of Johnson.



Sidenote - Ruiz never was THE champ as Spinks, Briggs and Willard were. But he was ranked in the top5 for several years in in or near the top10 for something like eight years now. Love him or hate him, that's a pretty big accomplishment.

[Robbi]

Ruiz was just a solid heavyweight with basic skills and durability. IMO he was robbed against Holyfield, first fight. 116-112.

[Jennifer Love Hewitt]

Ruiz is no where near the worst champ.
Guys like Sam Peter, Bruce Seldon, Buster Douglas, Hasim Rahman, Oleg Maskaev, Leon Spinks, Lamon Brewster, etc were worse champs than the Quietman.

[kenmore]

As a Hvywt Champ, where do you rank Ruiz?

Is he the worst?

Ruiz is far from being the worst heavyweight champion of all time. I would say that Ruiz rates somewhere around the median in terms of ability relative to other historical heavyweight champions.

Ruiz has gotten a bum rap from fans and critics because of his boring style. Overall, though, he has proven to be effective in the ring and long lasting as a force in the heavyweight division.

The guy isn't great, but he deserves much more credit than his critics give him.

[heehoo]

Ruiz has gotten a bad rap because he put himself into that position with his shitty ass style.

He is not the worst by any means, however.

That's a tie between Primo Carnera, Leon Spinks, and Jess Willard.

[Loewe]

Ruiz has gotten a bad rap because he put himself into that position with his shitty ass style.

He is not the worst by any means, however.

That's a tie between Primo Carnera, Leon Spinks, and Jess Willard.

Neither Willard or Carnera are that bad, even after 2000 we had a bunch of worse champs.

[Rise Above]

He is not the worst but he is definitely one of the most boring.

[Russell]

Ruiz used to actually be a boxer puncher, strangely enough.

Tua changed his mindset completely, but his earlier work is often glossed over and all but forgotten.

[bum of the week]

No, there are far worse fighters. L. Spinks was little more than a journeyman after his fights with Ali. Briggs was game against Lewis, but probably should've lost the fight with Foreman. The Liakhovic win was excellent though. Willard would've lost to Johnson on basically any other ruleset of the 20th century, and that was a fat and old version of Johnson.



Sidenote - Ruiz never was THE champ as Spinks, Briggs and Willard were. But he was ranked in the top5 for several years in in or near the top10 for something like eight years now. Love him or hate him, that's a pretty big accomplishment.

You have a valid point there. Ruiz was only a title holder, not a real champion. He should be compared to other title holders, like Terell, Ellis or those underachievers that failed to hold on to their titles in the early 80's, rather than to champs from one-champ eras.
And during the last 15 years or so we've had countless titleholders who did worse than the quiet man.
He doesn't stand out in any way. He was only outstanding in being very ordinary.
He certainly was one of the least talented but he was also one of the most consistent.
That's John Ruiz to me:
Very consistent at being untalented, doing well by not being good, he'll be best remembered for being very forgettable.

[SteveO]

Despite his style, he holds some solid wins.

[Seamus]

That's a tie between Primo Carnera, Leon Spinks, and Jess Willard.

Jess Willard was actually a pretty damn good fighter with very good tools and fantastic strength, close to all-time strongest heavyweight.

If you want to argue he was a bad champion (i.e. bad resume as champ), he was no worse than Liston in those regards.

[Russell]

Jess Willard was actually a pretty damn good fighter with very good tools and fantastic strength, close to all-time strongest heavyweight.

If you want to argue he was a bad champion (i.e. bad resume as champ), he was no worse than Liston in those regards.

Yeah, that KO I result over Patterson can't match what Willard did as champion. :lol:

[My dinner with Conteh]

Just above Tony Tucker.

[Russell]

I find it hilarious how the unappreciated greatness of Sammy Agnott is brought up now and again because of the sole fact that we as modern day boxing fans didn't have to WATCH him clinch and maul fighters like Willie Pep.

The mere fact that Ruiz is always in shape makes me respect him more then 90% of the current heavyweight crop.

[DamonD]

I personally think he's done a lot of harm to the division and was stuck using his negative jab-and-grab style because that was about the only way he could win against the other contenders. I also take issue with him being humble, because while he can be a nice guy at times his complaints after every loss and the infamous 'Letters from Ruiz' were some of the worst whiny 10-year-old bitchfests I've ever seen, barely worthy of the playground let alone a HW title holder. I have no doubt in my mind that without Don King backing him, and basically as a stop-gap substitute for Akinwande no less, he would never have been considered worthy to fight for a belt let alone have 10 title fights. If Holyfield had been even 10% better for that 2000 fight, he beats Ruiz handily and that's the end of the Ruiz experiment before it even begins, as King moves on to a different shiny toy.

On the other hand...

I can think of several more talented HWs than Ruiz that never achieved their potential because they didn't have his determination, dedication and sheer bloody-mindedness. When he ditches the jab-and-grab, he's a capable boxer with an underrated sneaky right hand. While the Tua disaster must be held in account, despite getting knocked down in other fights Ruiz has never been stopped again and usually shows durability under fire.

Speaking for myself, if John Ruiz never fought again I'd be a happy man.
But I can't deny that he's made the most of what he had, and when you get right down to it, I'd point the finger at his opponents for failing to display the skill needed to overcome what he could do. Everyone knows what he does, how he fights, yet time and again they got suckered into it or weren't capable of doing what was needed to counter it.

So I couldn't say the worst. In fact, and I can almost hear Zakman's head exploding as I type this, he's probably been one of the best of the 2000 champs for the people he's fought and the title runs he's had. He's put up a hell of a lot more fight to keep his title than others like Neon Leon and Seldon and so on.

Still can't stand the little cockroach though ;)

[abraq]

Lower rung on the ATG list. But definitely not the worst.

You got to respect what he achieved with limited talent and after the Tua disaster.

[kenmore]

I believe Ruiz was superior to Tommy Burns, Jess Willard, Jack Sharkey, Primo Carnera, James Braddock, Ingomar Johannson, and numerous other beltholders from the '80s, '80s, and '00s.

Ruiz isn't pretty to look at -- and he has undermined the sport's popularity with fans -- but he's a effective in the ring. Ruiz is also a fairly large guy at 230 lbs., too, so he would have had a size advantage over various champions from the past.

[Loewe]

Ruiz used to actually be a boxer puncher, strangely enough.

Tua changed his mindset completely, but his earlier work is often glossed over and all but forgotten.

His late work also. He again changed his style back to boxer-puncher before Valuev I.

[red cobra]

Underrated and hated by the "masses" for his ugly style, but much to their chagrin, he is and has been an awkwardly effective and undaunted sort against mid level opposition, but a miserable failure against blown-up exmiddleweight champions, which is INEXCUSABLE for a top ten heavyweight. Oh, and don't even mention the Tua factor in the Ruiz equation.

[Loewe]

Well, have to say he's the greatest latin heavyweight of all time, ahead of guys like Arreola and Tommy Gomez. That counts for something. Being a 2x heavyweight champion isnt something to sneeze at either, though he wasnt a Tim Witherspoon, Holyfield, Lewis, Tyson. I'd say he's better than Leon Spinks, thats for sure. Though I hated watching him fight, and could set a stop watch time of 10 seconds that he'd pull a clinch, I respected him because for a while there he was about the most active heavyweight of the bunch, and he seemed like he wasnt afraid to fight anybody, took the fights nobody else wanted. He fought Golota, he fought Valuev, he fought Ruslan Chagaev, he fought Toney....not one of the Klitschko's have even faced one of those men yet. So I give him props. He ducks nobody. And he's still highly rated. Lower rung heavyweight, sure, but alot of balls he's got.

The marked guy does not fit in this line. Witherspoon shouldn´t rank much higher than Ruiz, if he should at all.

[Mendoza]

I believe Ruiz was superior to Tommy Burns, Jess Willard, Jack Sharkey, Primo Carnera, James Braddock, Ingomar Johannson, and numerous other beltholders from the '80s, '80s, and '00s.

Ruiz isn't pretty to look at -- and he has undermined the sport's popularity with fans -- but he's a effective in the ring. Ruiz is also a fairly large guy at 230 lbs., too, so he would have had a size advantage over various champions from the past.

Ruiz was KO'd in 18 seconds, and beaten by two blow up middles...juice or no juice, he got his but whipped.

I think Johannson, and Willard were a bit better. Ruiz won a lot of close matches thanks to Don King picking the judges. While Ruiz was somewhat skilled, the reason he did well was he would jab, grab, clinch, and bitch his way to victory.

While Ruiz wasn't the worst title holder, he was perhaps the worst one to watch.