Ken Norton vs Rex Layne, Bob Satterfield and other punchers

[janitor]

Many people on this site tend to pick against Ken Norton when he is up against punchers. I would be interested to see how people would rate his chances against:

Tony Gallento

Elmer Ray

Rex Layne

Bob Satterfield

Ingo Johansen

Big Cat Williams

Jerry Quarry (prime)

Let em rip

[SuzieQ49]

I dont consider quarry a puncher. that said, I defintley feel quarry in his prime would have taken norton.

I like norton to TKO galento on cuts..galento was just too wide open and crude, but galento has a punchers chance.

I like C williams to demolish norton by devastating one round knockout

Bob satterfield takes ken norton out quick and early


I like norton to outpoint rex layne by unanimous decision as long as he doesnt get caught by laynes right hand, but its very possible layne could wear norton down. layne was a beast at his peak, he never gave up and always kept plodding.


I like elmer ray to dispatch norton in 4-5 rounds, Ray was very tough because he was a long armed puncher swarmer like dempsey...and these styles are nightmares for boxers who fight only off the back foot. Ray doesnt need to get inside to do damage to norton.

[mcvey]

Norton takes Galento and Satterfield (who sucked) but loses to Layne. Layne beat Walcott who was just as awkward but more dangerous than Norton.

Norton fought 30 year-old Jerry Quarry and beat him.
Quarry was on the way down by then and about 10lbs over his optimum weight,prime for prime I think he takes Norton. Norton beats Galento who was wide open ,and too slow to follow up if he hurt you,but the others beat him ,as his trainer Eddie Futch said in a KO interview, he allways had issues against punchers ,and froze up.

[PowerPuncher]

Norton gets a very hard rap, a man who arguably beat Ali 3 out of 3 times and Holmes once, Quarry and Young. Some facts about his opponents

Quarry - supposedly past prime, but Norton is 2years OLDER, Quarry could still punch and was battered pillar to post in a completely 1 sided contest yes some fools on here think he wins if hes a few years younger

Holmes - guess what Holmes could punch and Norton brawled with him for 15rounds and it was an SD

Foreman - arguably most devastating offense at HW ever, getting taken out by Foreman isnt terrible

Shavers - Norton was a few months from his 35th birthday against arguably the biggest puncher ever

Bobick - finnished his career with 42kos and 38-0 when Norton faced him

Cooney - was shot at 36 (nearly 37)

Garcia - avenged his KO loss

Ron Stander - pretty big puncher

[Bummy Davis]

Its not that Norton would lose to every puncher some of them he would be able to keep at bay but when pressured by a puncher, Norton could not back up. Quarry would have beaten him in his prime, Quarry was shot at that point due to drugs and booze and his new girl with the same habits. Galento had a hell of a hook but slow but I could see Tony doing it. Bobick was stopped by Norton but devasted by Knoetzee. Bobick was a stand up stiff fighter and very easy to hit . Satterfield could KO KEN....like I said some punchers Ken would beat like Big Cat

[SuzieQ49]

Quarry - supposedly past prime, but Norton is 2years OLDER, Quarry could still punch and was battered pillar to post in a completely 1 sided contest yes some fools on here think he wins if hes a few years younger


quarry was so out of shape it wasnt even funny. he took the fight on 7 days notice and showed up a blubbery tubby 207lb with rolls on his midsection..,...and looked awful, shot to hell. norton couldn even floor him, lol.

[SuzieQ49]

Ron Stander - pretty big puncher

LOL

[Seamus]

quarry was so out of shape it wasnt even funny. he took the fight on 7 days notice and showed up a blubbery tubby 207lb with rolls on his midsection..,...and looked awful, shot to hell. norton couldn even floor him, lol.

Quarry had a majorly f'd up back and was also taking muscle relaxers. He was totally unprepared to fight. For further encouragement, Norton had heard Quarry was a racist and wanted to the kill him.

And Ron Stander.... a puncher? Hmmm...

[kenmore]

Many people on this site tend to pick against Ken Norton when he is up against punchers. I would be interested to see how people would rate his chances against:

Tony Gallento

Elmer Ray

Rex Layne

Bob Satterfield

Ingo Johansen

Big Cat Williams

Jerry Quarry (prime)

Let em rip

I believe that a prime Norton would have beaten everybody on this list decisively. The only possible exception is Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams, but even against Williams I would have to go with Ken. I give Williams an outside chance only because of he is the one guy on your list whose size compliments his power.

Norton has substantial size advantages against Galento, Ray, Satterfield, Johanson and Quarry. A prime Quarry would have given Norton a good fight, but he couldn't have beaten Ken.

I don't believe that Layne had the talent to hang in there with a fighter like Norton. As I understand, Layne was also somewhat slow and easy to hit.

[kenmore]

And Ron Stander.... a puncher? Hmmm...

Stander was definitely a heavy puncher...there is no doubt about that. Unfortunately, Stander lacked the world-class talent to compliment his punching power, so he remained on the club level for his entire career.

[Arka]

Stander was definitely a heavy puncher...there is no doubt about that. Unfortunately, Stander lacked the world-class talent to compliment his punching power, so he remained on the club level for his entire career.

I always thought he had a world class chin,given he could take the bombs of a Shavers, and a solid heavyweight punch.However his conditioning was terrible going into fights.

[kenmore]

Ron Stander - pretty big puncher

I agree that Stander was a big puncher, however he was too slow and too short to hit Norton. In their 1976 fight, Stander's powerful but wild punches missed Norton's head by a mile. Thus, this fight doesn't say much about Norton's capacity to stand up to a puncher.

Norton did indeed have trouble with exceptionally hard hitting, strong men who could back him up and unload their bombs. I emphasize however that these guys had to be exceptionally strong and powerful in order to trouble Ken.

[mcvey]

Yeah we are all fools and you are the man .Quarry retired for 2 1/2 years after the Norton defeat,he was in his prime.:patsch

Its not your age ,its the mileage on your clock, Dumbo,Quarry had two stoppages against him from Ali,the second one a painful drubbing,two real good thrashings from Frazier ,and had been dropped three fights previously by unheralded Joe Alexander,he was in such good shape that he retired after the Norton fight.:nono

[Mendoza]

Many people on this site tend to pick against Ken Norton when he is up against punchers. I would be interested to see how people would rate his chances against:

Tony Gallento

Elmer Ray

Rex Layne

Bob Satterfield

Ingo Johansen

Big Cat Williams

Jerry Quarry (prime)

Let em rip

I'd take Norton in every match, but I would not expect him to win all of them.

[Mendoza]

I agree that Stander was a big puncher, however he was too slow and too short to hit Norton. In their 1976 fight, Stander's powerful but wild punches missed Norton's head by a mile. Thus, this fight doesn't say much about Norton's capacity to stand up to a puncher.

Norton did indeed have trouble with exceptionally hard hitting, strong men who could back him up and unload their bombs. I emphasize however that these guys had to be exceptionally strong and powerful in order to trouble Ken.

I'll take it a step further. Norton had to be intimidated too.

[Marciano Frazier]

Many people on this site tend to pick against Ken Norton when he is up against punchers. I would be interested to see how people would rate his chances against:

Tony Gallento

Elmer Ray

Rex Layne

Bob Satterfield

Ingo Johansen

Big Cat Williams

Jerry Quarry (prime)

Let em rip
I think I would favor Norton against Galento, Layne, and Satterfield, maybe make him about even odds with Williams and a prime Quarry, and favor Ray and Johansson to beat him.

[fists of fury]

Personally I've never been comfortable with this mindset that Norton gets beaten by punchers every time.
I understand that there is a certain precedent for saying that, but still I think it's a bit harsh. Most of his losses to punchers can be explained. I do agree though that if backed up by punchers he was in trouble.

[Jear]

I'll take it a step further. Norton had to be intimidated too.


How I see it too. I have never seen the Garcia bout but Cooney, Foreman & Shavers are among the biggest punchers in the history of the division, But they are also big strong men who pushed and wrestled guys to get the right range. Big cat is the only one on that list that has the physical credentials as well as the punch to get in Kennys head.

[mcvey]

Personally I've never been comfortable with this mindset that Norton gets beaten by punchers every time.
I understand that there is a certain precedent for saying that, but still I think it's a bit harsh. Most of his losses to punchers can be explained. I do agree though that if backed up by punchers he was in trouble.
Eddie Futch ,who trained Norton,confirmed that he froze up against punchers in a KO interview.

[janitor]

Personally I've never been comfortable with this mindset that Norton gets beaten by punchers every time.
I understand that there is a certain precedent for saying that, but still I think it's a bit harsh. Most of his losses to punchers can be explained. I do agree though that if backed up by punchers he was in trouble.

I sort of agree with you or share your discomfort.

To be honest I dont think the matter was fully settled either way.

I will say however that while Norton was a great fighter he was not a great all rounder and did not fare as well against punchers as other styles.

[mr. magoo]

One poster here is crediting Norton as having won all three of the Ali fights as well as beating Holmes. While everyone of those matches were close, Norton was definately NOT robbed in all of them..

[mr. magoo]

I sort of agree with you or share your discomfort.

To be honest I dont think the matter was fully settled either way.

I will say however that while Norton was a great fighter he was not a great all rounder and did not fare as well against punchers as other styles.

I think part of the problem Janitor is that he was usually matched up with the wrong types of puncher profiles, and under less preferable circumstances. The Cooney fight counts for virtually nothing in my opinion, and frankly I think most past prime fighters on the tale ends of their careers, would be vulnerable against a large, powerful, fast starter like Cooney. Earnie Shavers and George Foreman commonly rival one another as the concencus hardest puncher of all time. Norton faced one of those men, while being very far past his prime, and fought Foreman when he was basically considered unbeatable and after just creaming the shit out of Joe Frazier.

Yes, I agree that Norton would always be vulnerable to powerful punchers who fought at close or mid range. However, I do feel that it would take a puncher of higher calibur to beat him. I don't see men like Tommy Morrison, Ray Mercer, Bruce Seldon, Tony Galento, Bob Satterfield, or even Mike Weaver beating a peak Norton. Additionally, as shot as horribly out of shape as Quarry was, I don't see him beating Norton at their perspective bests. Quarry did not have the boxing ability that Muhammad Ali had, and nor did he have devastating power to dispatch Norton early. I could see this fight going maybe 10 rounds instead of 5, if Quarry was at his best, but in the end Norton breaks him down, leading to a stoppage - probably on cuts.

[janitor]

[quote=mr. magoo]I think part of the problem Janitor is that he was usually matched up with the wrong types of puncher profiles, and under less preferable circumstances. The Cooney fight counts for virtually nothing in my opinion, and frankly I think most past prime fighters on the tale ends of their careers, would be vulnerable against a large, powerful, fast starter like Cooney. Earnie Shavers and George Foreman commonly rival one another as the concencus hardest puncher of all time. Norton faced one of those men, while being very far past his prime, and fought Foreman when he was basically considered unbeatable and after just creaming the shit out of Joe Frazier.


Your point is well taken.

Yes, I agree that Norton would always be vulnerable to powerful punchers who fought at close or mid range. However, I do feel that it would take a puncher of higher calibur to beat him. I don't see men like Tommy Morrison, Ray Mercer, Bruce Seldon, Tony Galento, Bob Satterfield, or even Mike Weaver beating a peak Norton.

The problem here is that these guys fall between the punchers who beat Norton (Foreman/Shavers) and those he defeated leaving a bit of a no mans land between.

[mr. magoo]

[quote]


Your point is well taken.



The problem here is that these guys fall between the punchers who beat Norton (Foreman/Shavers) and those he defeated leaving a bit of a no mans land between.

For the most part, I agree.

However, when Ken was far past his best, he did manage to beat a prime, undefeated Tex Cobb, who had power that was at least respectable, along with a legendary chin and notable stamina. Norton took some good shots in that fight from what I'm told, and battled Tex over 10 rounds, when he was very much over the hill. What does this tell us? Probably not much, as Cobb was not even close to being a great fighter. I do however feel, that it shows that Norton could have certainly beaten some reasonably hard hitting and tough contenders.