Floyd Patterson vs. Jersey Joe Walcott

[Luigi1985]

Who wins and why?

[Joe E]

Great post Luigi.I'll have to give the nod to Patterson by a very close perhaps split decision.Joe Walcott would give any H.W. fits with his style.He also had a sneaky fast right and a good left hook.He would surely knock Floyd down but not out.It seemed to me though that Joe had a habit of not doing enough in some fights where Patterson was always aggressive and also had a very good left hook and very quick hands.Floyds aggressiveness and work rate impresses the judges in this one I think.Thanks.

[Luigi1985]

Great post Luigi.I'll have to give the nod to Patterson by a very close perhaps split decision.Joe Walcott would give any H.W. fits with his style.He also had a sneaky fast right and a good left hook.He would surely knock Floyd down but not out.It seemed to me though that Joe had a habit of not doing enough in some fights where Patterson was always aggressive and also had a very good left hook and very quick hands.Floyds aggressiveness and work rate impresses the judges in this one I think.Thanks.


:thumbsup

[janitor]

I think Pattersons pressure would certainly trouble Walcott but my hunch is that Walcott would set a dirty little trap for him and take him out with a triple feinted left hand somwhere along the way.

[Joe E]

I think Pattersons pressure would certainly trouble Walcott but my hunch is that Walcott would set a dirty little trap for him and take him out with a triple feinted left hand somwhere along the way.I see where your coming from Janitor,but that left hook that did Charles in was a 1 in a million shot and Pattrson would be looking for it,he would'nt let Walcott just waltz in the way Charles did.Thanks.

[jackiebrown]

floyd patterson .. too many bombs .. too quick

[janitor]

I see where your coming from Janitor,but that left hook that did Charles in was a 1 in a million shot and Pattrson would be looking for it,he would'nt let Walcott just waltz in the way Charles did.Thanks.

I was thinking more of the Louis and Marciano fights than the Charles fight. Walcott seemed to set traps for them and catch them coming in.

Difference is that they were more durable than Patterson so Walcott might catch him fataly.

[Joe E]

I was thinking more of the Louis and Marciano fights than the Charles fight. Walcott seemed to set traps for them and catch them coming in.

Difference is that they were more durable than Patterson so Walcott might catch him fataly.Good point Janitor.The left Walcott caught Marciano with was a Beaut although he did catch Rocky cold in the first rd.As for Louis this may sound like Heresy to some,but I question his balance at times.I think Floyd could have taken those shots and still taken a decision.But i will agree to disagree.Thanks:hi:

[Dempsey1238]

He is not talking about the shots that drop Louis and Marciano, but the shots that Walcott nail Louis and Marciano though out the fight. If you look at Louis's face after the first and 2nd fight, you can see it all busted up, his eye was close in the first fight I belive.

As for Marciano, cut under eye, and cut scap from the head butt in round 6. The reason Walcott did the damage to there faces was because Walcott keep landed his money punch though out the 15 and 13 rounds of that fight. Patterson is also not that hard to hit when him chargeing in the way he did. I pick Walcott.

[Dempsey1238]

Walcott could bang if he CHOOSE too. The problem is he was mostly a safety first fighter.

[janitor]

[quote=tobkhan]Imo Patterson´s durability is a bit underrated. He was only stopped three times, one time by TKO from Johansson who was a very hard hitter and two KOs from Liston who is remembered as one of the hardest hitters ever.

I tend to agree. Patterson is under rated vs punchers.


I don´t think Jersey Joe is on that level of power. I don´t doubt he would be able to floor Patterson but i don´t think he is able to put him away.


The thing about Walcott is not so much his power but his sneakyness. He always managed to hit guys with something they didn't see coming. Ezzard Charles did not come back for more after that beauty of a bolo punch and he went on to take everything Marciano could throw at him over 15 rounds.

To be fair to my critics the knockout scenario that I am envisaging is verry specific and if it dose not happen precisely that way then a radicaly differnt outcome is likley.

[Joe E]

He is not talking about the shots that drop Louis and Marciano, but the shots that Walcott nail Louis and Marciano though out the fight. If you look at Louis's face after the first and 2nd fight, you can see it all busted up, his eye was close in the first fight I belive.

As for Marciano, cut under eye, and cut scap from the head butt in round 6. The reason Walcott did the damage to there faces was because Walcott keep landed his money punch though out the 15 and 13 rounds of that fight. Patterson is also not that hard to hit when him chargeing in the way he did. I pick Walcott.I understand what is going on here D,I just don't agree.Jersey Joe is one of my all time favorites.I love watching that Man fight.IMO he is one of the most under rated champs in history,a cutie but a cutie who could punch and who was as tough as nails.But lets give Floyd a little credit here.He was K.Od cold 3 times in his carrer by 2 Men,and I don't think Walcott hit harder than these two.But more importantly Floyd was knocked down many times and got up many times which proves he was dead game and tenacious.Walcott might be able to put him down but not keep him down.Floyd was easy to hit ,yes,but Floyd would fire back to the body and head with argubly the quickest hands in Heavyweight histoy and even the old slickster would by hard pressed to duck and dodge all of these shots.I stand by my original statement Patterson via close perhaps split decision.Thanks.

[timmers612]

In going over this matchup I thought of Pattersons fights with Ellis (I had it a draw) and Quarry. As with them I would give Floyd a slight edge.

[robert ungurean]

Walcott because he is a better fighter period.

[Dempsey1238]

I understand what is going on here D,I just don't agree.Jersey Joe is one of my all time favorites.I love watching that Man fight.IMO he is one of the most under rated champs in history,a cutie but a cutie who could punch and who was as tough as nails.But lets give Floyd a little credit here.He was K.Od cold 3 times in his carrer by 2 Men,and I don't think Walcott hit harder than these two.But more importantly Floyd was knocked down many times and got up many times which proves he was dead game and tenacious.Walcott might be able to put him down but not keep him down.Floyd was easy to hit ,yes,but Floyd would fire back to the body and head with argubly the quickest hands in Heavyweight histoy and even the old slickster would by hard pressed to duck and dodge all of these shots.I stand by my original statement Patterson via close perhaps split decision.Thanks.
Come on, you guys are OVERRATEING Patterson's chin, here was a guy that was deck by PeteRademacher for crying out loud.

[Dempsey1238]

Pete, Harris, Ingo, and a few others had Patterson down. When Walcott gets Patterson down, he will hurt him. He would also wear Patterson out with hooks and uppercuts to the jaw. Patterson was not that as iron chin as you people belive. Just because he went 12 rounds with Ali does not mean Patterson would take the power Walcott would bring. And at his best, I rank Walcott a better puncher than Ingo was.

[Luigi1985]

I strongly disagree with you. Walcott was never the puncher Ingo was. I never said he had an iron chin but he had a good enough chin to take what Jersey Joe has to offer just like it is the other way round. Walcott has really something to land like he did on Charles to take Floyd´s lights out. And i can´t see it happen.


Ingo was a much better puncher than Walcott, agreed. But one-punch-wise Walcott hit harder IMO, some of his hooks were really murderous...

[KTFO]

Who wins and why?



Depends on who'd need the money most. :smoke

[Bummy Davis]

I have to go with Jersey Joe, Joe had the ability to pinpoint punches and he had great power in both hands, Joe was also a great boxer and could hit fighters with clean hard shots or just box and move(the first shuffler(the Jersey Shuffle) Patterson got better as he got older and held his own in the era, of Quarry,Ellis,Bonavena and he was the more experienced of an era of Young heavys(never fought Frazier) I think if Walcott was around in that era he would have spanked,Quarry,Ellis,Spencer,Martin,Bonavena and the rest and would also have a good shot vs Frazier and Ali, when J.J.W. got up for a fight he could be a master spoiler and a skilled 2 fisted tecnition

[cross_trainer]

Could Patterson have defeated the Louis that Walcott arguably should have?

(Not to imply that A beats B so he must beat C...just curious about your opinions).

[Bummy Davis]

I dont think Patterson could stay in there with Louis, Joe had power in both hands and once you were hurt his killer instinct was tops

[ChrisPontius]

I dont think Patterson could stay in there with Louis, Joe had power in both hands and once you were hurt his killer instinct was tops

Agreed. :good


Walcott was able to annoy and befudle Louis with his unorthodox footwork and tricks. Patterson is way different, Louis will find him easier and i don't think Patterson chin will hold up.

[janitor]

I strongly disagree with you. Walcott was never the puncher Ingo was.

Walcott was never the puncher Marciano was in terms of raw power yet he was able to put Ezzard Charles away with a single shot where Marciano couldn't.

It was not just Walcotts power that made him a dangerous puncher. Power alone is worth two buckets of warm spit. It is the ones you don't see coming that knock you out and Walcott would always get you with something you didnt see coming.

Make no mistake Walcott would present a verry serious and constant threat to Pattersons chin.

[janitor]

Could Patterson have defeated the Louis that Walcott arguably should have?


Not a cat in hells chance.

Even at this stage of his career Louis would have made short work of anybody around at the time if they went toe to toe with him. Walcott was an elusive target and Louis no longer had the reflexes to catch up with him. Even so he made short work of him when he finaly did.

[jowcol]

Pete, Harris, Ingo, and a few others had Patterson down. When Walcott gets Patterson down, he will hurt him. He would also wear Patterson out with hooks and uppercuts to the jaw. Patterson was not that as iron chin as you people belive. Just because he went 12 rounds with Ali does not mean Patterson would take the power Walcott would bring. And at his best, I rank Walcott a better puncher than Ingo was.

I'd venture to say that half of Patterson's knockdowns were either of the flash variety or being off balance. Ingo didn't keep him down (I often have wondered how the first fight might have played out had Ingo decked him at the end of round three) and he was getting to his feet in BOTH the Liston fights from punches Sonny later said he could feel all the way back into his shoulders and back, in short Sunday Bombs! You NEVER saw Floyd lying prone with a ref above him counting 8-9-10 yer' OUT! Chuvalo hit him with some bombs and that 2nd knockdown in the first Quarry fight would have KO'd some fighters but Floyd got to his feet and proceded to kick Jerry's arse until going passive in the last two rounds and letting Quarry salvage a draw.
It would have to be a much bigger guy and a big banger that would negate Floyd's aggressive attack.
Forget the china chin rap and go about finding other ways that Floyd would or could lose some of these mythical matchups.
My $0.02

[Dempsey1238]

Vs Ingo, they sure as hell were not flash knockdowns. And Patterson was counted out in the 2nd Liston fight I belive.

[janitor]

Jersey Joe is a missed opportunity imo. If he had gotten the chance to train and fight serious earlier he could have hang in there with Louis and Ali in terms of accomplishment and ranking.

It is certainly an interesting what if.

[Imira]

Vs Ingo, they sure as hell were not flash knockdowns.

Again, Patterson kept getting up before the referee stopped the fight. Sort of like Frazier v Foreman I. Yes, Patterson was down and hurt but Ingo was far from putting him down for good.

And Patterson was counted out in the 2nd Liston fight I belive.

Patterson was counted out but it was because he couldn't beat the count. Quite different from a fighter draped over the bottom rope as the referee counts to 50...

[Dempsey1238]

These guys are overated Patterson's chin imo. Patterson was drop WAY to many times to be able to take Walcotts best shots imo. And vs inferior comp at that. Walcott does have the power to drop and even take Patterson out of there. And Walcott can also outpoint Patterson if it came to it. Patterson be walking in like Marciano did, and end up getting counter. IT be a matter of time before Patterson finds out he cant take it.

[Bummy Davis]

Floyd was dropped by Pete Radamaker in Petes first fight,Floyd was Champ,he was also dropped by Roy Harris, Ko'd by Liston 2 times,Ingo had him sleep walking, Quarry had him down 2 times, I only touched the surface, he learned as he got older to relax better and use his experience but he was never a granite chin or wood 4 that matter

[Imira]

These guys are overated Patterson's chin imo. Patterson was drop WAY to many times to be able to take Walcotts best shots imo.

Walcott's best shots came only as his opponent was on the way in. Floyd was not a stand up fighter in the first place. He'd be crouching, bobbing and weaving as he came in, making it difficult for Walcott to time his best shots. On the inside, he ducked and rolled with punches and kept his gloves high. Floyd's defensive ability would certainly prevent a "Walcott KO 1-5 rounds" scenario.

Given Walcott's "Leading Is For Losers" style, his best chance for a surefire KO or knockdown would be catching Floyd as he leapt in for his gazelle left hook and seeing as how Ali, Moore, Jackson or Maxim couldn't catch him on the way in, let alone prevent it, I can't envision Walcott doing it either.

Not saying that Floyd has an iron chin, but his recuperative ability seems to be totally ignored.

And vs inferior comp at that.

Sort of like being KO'd by Abe Simon and Al Ettore and dropped by Curtis Sheppard?

Walcott does have the power to drop and even take Patterson out of there.

He may have the power, but certainly not the handspeed or the style. No counterpuncher, no matter how strong, ever put Floyd down for good.

And Walcott can also outpoint Patterson if it came to it.

Doubtful. Floyd hits too hard, has too much stamina and is just plain busier. Walcott would lose this fight if it goes the distance simply by being outworked.

Patterson be walking in like Marciano did, and end up getting counter. IT be a matter of time before Patterson finds out he cant take it.

Floyd doesn't walk in. He moved in gloves high and body low. Actually, given Floyd's punching power, I'd say that Walcott would find out he couldn't take it long before he tested Floyd.

[jowcol]

Sort of like being KO'd by Abe Simon and Al Ettore and dropped by Curtis Sheppard?


Wow! What a shot! I vote Imira the all-time greatest counter-puncher!

:yep