View Full Version : Ali was not the GOAT----- Henry Cooper had him out on his feet.....
timgentry
10-26-2008, 09:35 PM
He was dead to rights but Dundee cut his glove in the corner which gave Ali the time to clear his head and then won on Cooper's typical cuts. Ali was not the GOAT.
LARRY HOLMES WOULD HAVE OWNED HIM.......... I realize they fought when Ali was past his prime but it wouldn't have mattered. Holmes could simply take to good a punch and had a good jab.
I do not care for Holmes because he's racist but objectively he was the best........
heehoo
10-26-2008, 09:48 PM
How is Holmes a racist?
timgentry
10-26-2008, 09:57 PM
How is Holmes a racist?
he said rocky marciano was the great white hope for all the white dopes. don't you remember?
heehoo
10-26-2008, 10:38 PM
No, he said Gerry Cooney was "Looney Cooney" and that he, not Marciano, was The Great White Dope".
If you're gonna quote the man, please get it right.
And if anything, Blacks accuse him of being a racist because he refuses to hire exclusively Black employees, when he hires the best people for the job. He's no racist whatsoever.
k2fan
10-26-2008, 11:50 PM
Why is this in the Euro forum?? :roll: Take it to the classic section
millingcove
11-04-2008, 09:28 AM
So Cooper had Ali out on his feet? So what? It was a learning experience for Ali. Cooper got slaughtered by Folley and Patterson-both destroyed by Ali! As for Holmes being better,he learned everything he knew from Ali as his sparring partner!
dwilson
11-04-2008, 09:58 AM
Stupid thread.
MattMattMatt
11-05-2008, 12:38 PM
The cut glove is irrelevant, the gap between round 4 and 5 was pretty much spot on 60 seconds, watch a video of the fight! The whole thing is a massive load of bollocks that gets repeated so much that people think it is true.
markedwardscott
12-08-2008, 05:32 PM
I agree that Ali was out of it in round 4. But the fact that he came back from the fog is to his credit, especially at that early point in his career.
ApatheticLeader
12-08-2008, 06:49 PM
The cut glove is irrelevant, the gap between round 4 and 5 was pretty much spot on 60 seconds, watch a video of the fight! The whole thing is a massive load of bollocks that gets repeated so much that people think it is true.
But the smelling salts used were illegal, and hence Cooper should have won. Fact.
dwilson
12-09-2008, 04:49 AM
Ali had alot of help in his career.
flamengo
12-09-2008, 05:26 AM
He was dead to rights but Dundee cut his glove in the corner which gave Ali the time to clear his head and then won on Cooper's typical cuts. Ali was not the GOAT.
LARRY HOLMES WOULD HAVE OWNED HIM.......... I realize they fought when Ali was past his prime but it wouldn't have mattered. Holmes could simply take to good a punch and had a good jab.
I do not care for Holmes because he's racist but objectively he was the best........
The ability for any fighter to last 20 years in the H/W division, take on all comers, get sent into la-la land via left hooks from Banks, Cooper, Frasier and still endure through the hardest battles that any H/W fighter has done.... during the hardest era, is a reason for a legitimate claim for Ali to be considered the greatest.
Yep... Holmes had a great jab and took a punch... so what??? He was belted by Michael (came and went) Spinks.
Mate.... sit down for a week or two.... read the history books... watch the fight tapes.... look at the situations... Ali was the greatest heavy weight fighter for many reasons.
.... just sit back ffor a while mate, you will learn to reconsider the objective view.
ya-ni
12-13-2008, 01:37 PM
The cut glove is irrelevant, the gap between round 4 and 5 was pretty much spot on 60 seconds, watch a video of the fight! The whole thing is a massive load of bollocks that gets repeated so much that people think it is true.
No, can't say for sure how long it was, but it was over a minute, i heard up to 5 minutes, an that is an old vidieo i sure you watched,,,,:hi:
MattMattMatt
12-13-2008, 06:05 PM
No, can't say for sure how long it was, but it was over a minute, i heard up to 5 minutes, an that is an old vidieo i sure you watched,,,,:hi:
You heard up to 5 minutes? How about going and find out for yourself before you claim that someone else is wrong?
ApatheticLeader
12-14-2008, 07:44 AM
But the smelling salts used were illegal, and hence Cooper should have won. Fact.
I repeat...
How is Holmes a racist?
Holmes made more than one anti-White comment during and after title years, including once having a White reporter (Dick Young ) thrown out of press conference for havingasked him about it once.
He was dead to rights but Dundee cut his glove in the corner which gave Ali the time to clear his head and then won on Cooper's typical cuts. Ali was not the GOAT.
LARRY HOLMES WOULD HAVE OWNED HIM.......... I realize they fought when Ali was past his prime but it wouldn't have mattered. Holmes could simply take to good a punch and had a good jab.
I do not care for Holmes because he's racist but objectively he was the best........
come on give your head a shake..........big deal if cooper had him down....................holmes went down early in his carreer also.....:smoke:smoke:smoke
I repeat...
Oh who fucking cares.
Ali raped Cooper in round 5, it was ridiculous. He was clowning around and got careless, that comes with being young. He was FAR superior to Cooper and it showed in round 5 when he tore his face apart.
ApatheticLeader
12-15-2008, 05:29 AM
Oh who fucking cares.
Ali raped Cooper in round 5, it was ridiculous. He was clowning around and got careless, that comes with being young. He was FAR superior to Cooper and it showed in round 5 when he tore his face apart.
Of course Ali is a far, far better fighter than Cooper. It's pathetic that you can't cope with the fact that Ali's corner cheated though.
Ali's corner did cheat by giving him smelling salts to get him alert again, without them he may have not ben able to start next round, although Dundee, a brave man (as long as it wan not him getting into ring) would have sent Ali out. Smelling salts in corner were against rules.
Bokaj
12-15-2008, 02:29 PM
Smelling salts in corner were against rules.
Are you sure of this? I've never heard Cooper complain and the commentators don't treat it as anything out of the ordinary.
PaddyD1983
12-15-2008, 02:41 PM
But the smelling salts used were illegal, and hence Cooper should have won. Fact.
Incorrect.
Smelling salts did not get outlawed in British boxing till the late 80s.
Fact.
ApatheticLeader
12-15-2008, 04:51 PM
Incorrect.
Smelling salts did not get outlawed in British boxing till the late 80s.
Fact.
Are you sure about that? Get any article which mentions that and I'll concede defeat.
Bokaj
12-15-2008, 04:57 PM
Are you sure about that? Get any article which mentions that and I'll concede defeat.
Aren't you the one who should provide evidence, though? I mean if Dundee did something illegal in plain view there should have been a row about it, but I've never heard Cooper or anyone else complain about that.
ApatheticLeader
12-15-2008, 05:02 PM
Aren't you the one who should provide evidence, though? I mean if Dundee did something illegal in plain view there should have been a row about it, but I've never heard Cooper or anyone else complain about that.
Every article I can find states that smelling salts are illegal, and I can't find any saying they weren't illegal before a certain time in the Queensbury rules.
At the same time, I can't find any quotes from Cooper or his team complaining about the use of ammonia.
PaddyD1983
12-15-2008, 06:06 PM
Every article I can find states that smelling salts are illegal, and I can't find any saying they weren't illegal before a certain time in the Queensbury rules.
At the same time, I can't find any quotes from Cooper or his team complaining about the use of ammonia.
They have never been illegal under the Queensbury rules. Have a read of the Queensburys, there are only about a dozen odd rules off the top of my head and none mention smelling salts! Queensbury was simply the first set of rules introduced to regulate boxing. The rules then developed as time went on. You wont find the three knock down rule mentioned, but it exists. As time has gone on, the sport has become more regulated - and rightly so! As the sport progressed the rules changed. When the NBA split, the different governing bodies came up with their own rules. Each domestic body has traditionally had their own rules. They are all much of a muchness now, but the best examples are stuff like the three knockdown rule. This was introduced by different governing bodies at different times.
Now as far as I know regarding smelling salts, the WBC was the last belt to outlaw them, as recently as this decade I believe. I may be wrong on that one so wont hold out to be an authority.
I'll try to find a source for the BBBC outlawing them and the date but I am 99.9% certain it was late 80s.
Are you sure of this? I've never heard Cooper complain and the commentators don't treat it as anything out of the ordinary.
In the book that features interviews with many of the guys who fought Ali, Cooper mentions the smelling salts between rounds, and says they were illegal. I don' tknow books name, but it also has inteview wth Rusian Heavy who twice beat Teofilio Stevenson by ko, his chapter talksof seeing Ali in Russian gym. If anyone knows title, please put it up.
flamengo
12-22-2008, 02:33 AM
Incorrect.
Smelling salts did not get outlawed in British boxing till the late 80s.
Fact.
For fuck sake, the fucking poms still had a referee sitting in the ringside seats up until the first 12 years of last century in many fights. .. who cares about smelling salts??
Cooper is a total legend in the game... deservedly so.. A British icon, and the finest man to uphold the British fighters integrity, as far as former boxers can be judged.
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