gaurds/stances

[younghypnotiq]

is therea site that has alot of stances and gaurds i like reading about theM?

[JMonster]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[younghypnotiq]

lol. no as in filly shell, cross armed, etc

[achillesthegreat]

Guard:
The three guards are full guard, half guard and no guard. Variations of these guards are peek a boo and open guard for full guard and cross guard for half guard.

Stance:
There is only one text book stance, from which you can employ any guard. You will find guys tweak their stances as they look to get different things from it. These two variations of stance are the angled off stance and the squared on stance. Example of angled off stance is Paulie Malignaggi and example of a squared on stance is Joe Frazier.

[Pugsley]

Any examples of a No Guard? Could it be... Ali????

[achillesthegreat]

Any examples of a No Guard? Could it be... Ali????
Oops, I forgot that one. Yeah, Ali is an example. Pep and Jones also employed it. As do many other fighters like Calzaghe. You drop the hands and use your feet, head movement and shoulders to be elusive. Can be very effective.

[BeamBlack]

Oops, I forgot that one. Yeah, Ali is an example. Pep and Jones also employed it. As do many other fighters like Calzaghe. You drop the hands and use your feet, head movement and shoulders to be elusive. Can be very effective.

Question(s): what's the point of having your hands down at all? Being able to see punches better? Aren't your hands going to be faster if they are up around your face? What's the advantage of keeping your hands down?

[CMBoxer]

is therea site that has alot of stances and gaurds i like reading about theM?

Don't you have a coach? A coach is the best source for boxing.

[younghypnotiq]

YES. but i like reading about other stances. im not gonna go into a fight filly shell style or cross armed style.

[achillesthegreat]

Question(s): what's the point of having your hands down at all? Being able to see punches better? Aren't your hands going to be faster if they are up around your face? What's the advantage of keeping your hands down?
There is alot of reasoning to it. It does depend on your talent, assets and mindset.

You can be more fluid, move your head easier, conserve energy by not having to hold your hands up, you can punch from unorthodox angles, you can make a guy commit to a punch because you look open but then you counter him, you can give your opponent a new look to keep him guessing, your peripheral is increased and much more.

There is alot you can do.

Your hands will get from A to B quicker but many of the people you find in no guard do it because they are so fast i.e. calzaghe, ali, jones etc

[Pugsley]

There is alot of reasoning to it. It does depend on your talent, assets and mindset.

You can be more fluid, move your head easier, conserve energy by not having to hold your hands up, you can punch from unorthodox angles, you can make a guy commit to a punch because you look open but then you counter him, you can give your opponent a new look to keep him guessing, your peripheral is increased and much more.

There is alot you can do.

Your hands will get from A to B quicker but many of the people you find in no guard do it because they are so fast i.e. calzaghe, ali, jones etc

Wow. That's what I figured too. Especially about the peripherals part. No obstruction to your view, and no obstruction to your body, clears the way to punch from all angles. It also seems that a person in no guard can force you to commit yourself more deeply to the punch. MAking it difficult to gauge their range consistently.
I presume that video of whitaker doing his thing against DLH was a good example of No Guard?

[Pugsley]

Oops, I forgot that one. Yeah, Ali is an example. Pep and Jones also employed it. As do many other fighters like Calzaghe. You drop the hands and use your feet, head movement and shoulders to be elusive. Can be very effective.

Thing I dont get is, that the hands down guard continues to be critiqued by Boxing even today, when there are examples of fighters who have pulled it off with success. Why does No Guard get so much flack? Is it considered showing off?????

It's the 'keep your hands up!' I constantly hear being fired all over gyms... I thought a true Boxing gym would be able to teach people to fight in all guards, stances and variations.

Any clarification on this would be good.

[Muchmoore]

Thing I dont get is, that the hands down guard continues to be critiqued by Boxing even today, when there are examples of fighters who have pulled it off with success. Why does No Guard get so much flack? Is it considered showing off?????

It's the 'keep your hands up!' I constantly hear being fired all over gyms... I thought a true Boxing gym would be able to teach people to fight in all guards, stances and variations.

Any clarification on this would be good.

99 percent of fighters would get destroyed if they tried the hands down guard. Only the most athletic boxers like Jones, and Ali can pull it off. If average talented or rookie boxers were taught that stance they'd be killed.

[MrSmall]

How is Calzaghe in the same sentence as RJJ and Ali, achilles?
Tut tut!

[achillesthegreat]

How is Calzaghe in the same sentence as RJJ and Ali, achilles?
Tut tut!
Arguably the best super middleweight in history!

[achillesthegreat]

Wow. That's what I figured too. Especially about the peripherals part. No obstruction to your view, and no obstruction to your body, clears the way to punch from all angles. It also seems that a person in no guard can force you to commit yourself more deeply to the punch. MAking it difficult to gauge their range consistently.
I presume that video of whitaker doing his thing against DLH was a good example of No Guard?
When he has his hands low and is moving his head to make him miss 7 shots. That is no guard. It is allowing him to be fluid and move his head. You see how low he can get because he is feeling so fluid.

Again, he had the speed to pull it off.

Slower guys have done it though i.e. Cotto. He did it against Quintana if you remember.

[achillesthegreat]

Thing I dont get is, that the hands down guard continues to be critiqued by Boxing even today, when there are examples of fighters who have pulled it off with success. Why does No Guard get so much flack? Is it considered showing off?????

It's the 'keep your hands up!' I constantly hear being fired all over gyms... I thought a true Boxing gym would be able to teach people to fight in all guards, stances and variations.

Any clarification on this would be good.
It does wrongly get criticised. It makes a fighter more versatile and it has its advantages.

Some guys fight more effectively out of it than they do full guard. Look at Anthony Small, he does not look comfortable fighting out of full guard. He appears at his best in no guard and half guard. He is dynamic out of those guards. Nevertheless some will make him pay for it and he needs to have other things in his repertoire. His style totally bamboozled Wright but Pryce was able to stay with it.

Take Calzaghe-Bika, I remember once he dropped his hands and then stuck his chin out but came back with a looping punch that was from an angle Bika was unable to defend against.

People in boxing are generally very limited. You know my thought - versatility.

I'll pull off no guard, half guard and full guard against different fighters. Its about finding the answer, doing what works and leaving with the W.

Text book does not just mean hands up. It's the manner and technique used to implement any skill.

[BITCH ASS]

No reason to keep your fuckin left hand down.

If you're gonna do it, you're gonna get hit.

There is always someone out there who is faster and better than you. If you're not fuckin Floyd and haven't been in the game with the experience he has, keep your fuckin hands up.

Floyd even puts his hands up when he has to.

That's philly shell shit is alright if you're going against a boxer who's gonna mostly throw straight punches or hit you with uppercuts.

Either way, keep your fuckin hands up.

[BITCH ASS]

It does wrongly get criticised. It makes a fighter more versatile and it has its advantages.

Some guys fight more effectively out of it than they do full guard. Look at Anthony Small, he does not look comfortable fighting out of full guard. He appears at his best in no guard and half guard. He is dynamic out of those guards. Nevertheless some will make him pay for it and he needs to have other things in his repertoire. His style totally bamboozled Wright but Pryce was able to stay with it.

Take Calzaghe-Bika, I remember once he dropped his hands and then stuck his chin out but came back with a looping punch that was from an angle Bika was unable to defend against.

People in boxing are generally very limited. You know my thought - versatility.

I'll pull off no guard, half guard and full guard against different fighters. Its about finding the answer, doing what works and leaving with the W.

Text book does not just mean hands up. It's the manner and technique used to implement any skill.

I don't agree.

Theses kids should be learning textbook fundamental boxing.

Putting your hands down leaves you open to be hit.

Kids should learn how to do it right from the get go before keeping their hand down becomes a habit and they eventually get knocked out.

[RDJ]

No reason to keep your fuckin left hand down.

If you're gonna do it, you're gonna get hit.

There is always someone out there who is faster and better than you. If you're not fuckin Floyd and haven't been in the game with the experience he has, keep your fuckin hands up.

Floyd even puts his hands up when he has to.

That's philly shell shit is alright if you're going against a boxer who's gonna mostly throw straight punches or hit you with uppercuts.

Either way, keep your fuckin hands up.

There are more ways to avoid a punch than blocking and you don't have to be superman to pull them off.

[BITCH ASS]

There are more ways to avoid a punch than blocking and you don't have to be superman to pull them off.

Yeah, you can slip punches, but you can slip them regardless of whether your left hand is up or not.

Besides, keeping your hands up puts them in better position to counter.

[Pugsley]

It does wrongly get criticised. It makes a fighter more versatile and it has its advantages.

Some guys fight more effectively out of it than they do full guard. Look at Anthony Small, he does not look comfortable fighting out of full guard. He appears at his best in no guard and half guard. He is dynamic out of those guards. Nevertheless some will make him pay for it and he needs to have other things in his repertoire. His style totally bamboozled Wright but Pryce was able to stay with it.

Take Calzaghe-Bika, I remember once he dropped his hands and then stuck his chin out but came back with a looping punch that was from an angle Bika was unable to defend against.

People in boxing are generally very limited. You know my thought - versatility.

I'll pull off no guard, half guard and full guard against different fighters. Its about finding the answer, doing what works and leaving with the W.

Text book does not just mean hands up. It's the manner and technique used to implement any skill.
Keyword versatility. I know you've said it many times. Seemed like many fighters today are still very much fixated. Of course, they are good at doing their thing if even its only one way. I appreciate your point. Good to know that there are people thinking laterally out there.

[achillesthegreat]

I don't agree.

Theses kids should be learning textbook fundamental boxing.

Putting your hands down leaves you open to be hit.

Kids should learn how to do it right from the get go before keeping their hand down becomes a habit and they eventually get knocked out.
A guy who knows how to fight in full guard and half guard is better than someone who just knows one guard. This is if they are both complete fighters in that guard.

The first guard to be taught should be full guard.

You'll actually find that some of the best amateurs don't cover up in full guard, they use their feet, move their head and catch shots.

[achillesthegreat]

No reason to keep your fuckin left hand down.

If you're gonna do it, you're gonna get hit.

There is always someone out there who is faster and better than you. If you're not fuckin Floyd and haven't been in the game with the experience he has, keep your fuckin hands up.

Floyd even puts his hands up when he has to.

That's philly shell shit is alright if you're going against a boxer who's gonna mostly throw straight punches or hit you with uppercuts.

Either way, keep your fuckin hands up.
You are wrong.

Cotto and X vs Quintana and Taylor are examples of making their faster foes miss.

How do you ever expect to be as good as the best fighters if you stay limited forever.

[achillesthegreat]

Yeah, you can slip punches, but you can slip them regardless of whether your left hand is up or not.

Besides, keeping your hands up puts them in better position to counter.
In half guard your peripheral increase, you become more angled off thus a smaller target and it becomes easier to slip shots.

Everything has its advantages.

Its about being versatile so you have the answer for every situation.

[BITCH ASS]

In half guard your peripheral increase, you become more angled off thus a smaller target and it becomes easier to slip shots.

Everything has its advantages.

Its about being versatile so you have the answer for every situation.

You might be right, but look at Cabellero for instance.

There is a guy that is able to keep his left hand down for one reason only, he's tall.

And honestly he's not fast, and it seems to me that he's not even entirelly too skilled, especially for a championship level fighter.

He just has the advantage of being a 6 foot 122 lber.

Fact is though, his last opponent had no trouble landing right hands, and if only the guy had some power, like Vasquez or Marquez, Cabellero would be in a fetal position on the ground.

Personally, I think kids should learn to keep their hands up regardless of whether they're tall or short, fast or slow.

If they want to drop their hands in the future, they can, but learning proper fundamentals from the start is crucial to their development.

Who knows when they'll meet a guy that has equal height and reach?

Or, what's going to happen when they fight a good inside fighter?

They're going to find out real fast how much it hurts to drop your hands.

Also, you mentioned Taylor as one of fighters you reasoned is doing a good job when he keeps his hands down.

This might be true when he's outside his opponents range, but it's a terrible idea when his opponent gets inside, for instance in his fight with Winky and Ouma who were shorter, but were able to capitalize on Taylor because he dropped his left hand.

Taylor is about to find out the hard way why he should keep his hand up when he fights Pavlik.

[achillesthegreat]

You might be right, but look at Cabellero for instance.

There is a guy that is able to keep his left hand down for one reason only, he's tall.

And honestly he's not fast, and it seems to me that he's not even entirelly too skilled, especially for a championship level fighter.

He just has the advantage of being a 6 foot 122 lber.

Fact is though, his last opponent had no trouble landing right hands, and if only the guy had some power, like Vasquez or Marquez, Cabellero would be in a fetal position on the ground.

Personally, I think kids should learn to keep their hands up regardless of whether they're tall or short, fast or slow.

If they want to drop their hands in the future, they can, but learning proper fundamentals from the start is crucial to their development.

Who knows when they'll meet a guy that has equal height and reach?

Or, what's going to happen when they fight a good inside fighter?

They're going to find out real fast how much it hurts to drop your hands.

Also, you mentioned Taylor as one of fighters you reasoned is doing a good job when he keeps his hands down.

This might be true when he's outside his opponents range, but it's a terrible idea when his opponent gets inside, for instance in his fight with Winky and Ouma who were shorter, but were able to capitalize on Taylor because he dropped his left hand.

Taylor is about to find out the hard way why he should keep his hand up when he fights Pavlik.
I wouldn't call it getting away with it. Some guys do take advantage of their speed or height but like I said neither Cotto or Hopkins do that, they are just skilled operators.

If a Cabellaro is fighting Marquez then he needs to be versatile and be able to do things to stop Marquez landing that right hand. This is why you need to be dynamic so you have the answer for different situations.

Who knows what will happen when any two fighters meet. This is why you need to be smart and skilled so you know what to do and when to do it.

I agree full guard is the first guard that must be taught and mastered. However I think every fighter should know how to fight out of half guard and no guard.

What happens if you bust your shoulder and can't keep it up? What happens if you are too tired to keep your hands up? You need to be prepared for everything.

I'm not saying knowing half guard and no guard is imperative to ones success BUT it sure doesn't hurt, ask Hopkins, Mayweather and many other legends.

Another thing is not everyone can comfortably fight out of full guard. Some guys mindset, proportioning and talent see to it that fighting out of half guard is more comfortable and effective that full guard. Mainly look at tall guys who are rangy and broad; it is not comfortable at all to fight out of full guard. Similar for a guy who is short and stocky, it won't be as good fighting out of half guard. Examples are Vernon Forrest for a tall guy and Miguel Cotto for a short guy. Guard can also be dictated by talent i.e. Floyd is a fast guy who likes half guard, Winky is a strong guy who likes full guard.

Half guard doesn't mean carrying your hand at your hip. Half guard is dropping your left hand about six inches. Carrying your hand low is just a variation of hall guard, just like peek a boo is a variation of full guard. Again, carrying your hand really low has its advantages i.e. covering your stomach with your forearm.

You say carrying your hand low is dangerous inside. I say Mayweather shows you it isn't. You become a smaller target because you have covered nearly everything and then you proceed to rip all kinds of right hands off.

I said X employed half guard effectively against a faster opponent in Taylor. Taylor has serious technical flaws.

An example of being in half guard is this:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I couldn't find great examples but you can see how his left hand is a little lower but his vision increases and he can still block with his shoulder. He isn't wildly out of position or carrying his hand by his hip.

Floyd is a GREAT example of someone employing full guard, half guard and no guard. He employs the original stance, peek a boo, half guard with hand low or high, both hands low, you name it. All while maintaining a great defence. Sometimes half guard doesn't serve him well i.e. vs Judah but sometimes full guard doesn't serve him well. Floyd switches his guard up loads during a fight and that is what a great fighter does, look to Hopkins, Cotto and other good fighters for examples.

[BITCH ASS]

I wouldn't call it getting away with it. Some guys do take advantage of their speed or height but like I said neither Cotto or Hopkins do that, they are just skilled operators.

If a Cabellaro is fighting Marquez then he needs to be versatile and be able to do things to stop Marquez landing that right hand. This is why you need to be dynamic so you have the answer for different situations.

Who knows what will happen when any two fighters meet. This is why you need to be smart and skilled so you know what to do and when to do it.

I agree full guard is the first guard that must be taught and mastered. However I think every fighter should know how to fight out of half guard and no guard.

What happens if you bust your shoulder and can't keep it up? What happens if you are too tired to keep your hands up? You need to be prepared for everything.

I'm not saying knowing half guard and no guard is imperative to ones success BUT it sure doesn't hurt, ask Hopkins, Mayweather and many other legends.

Another thing is not everyone can comfortably fight out of full guard. Some guys mindset, proportioning and talent see to it that fighting out of half guard is more comfortable and effective that full guard. Mainly look at tall guys who are rangy and broad; it is not comfortable at all to fight out of full guard. Similar for a guy who is short and stocky, it won't be as good fighting out of half guard. Examples are Vernon Forrest for a tall guy and Miguel Cotto for a short guy. Guard can also be dictated by talent i.e. Floyd is a fast guy who likes half guard, Winky is a strong guy who likes full guard.

Half guard doesn't mean carrying your hand at your hip. Half guard is dropping your left hand about six inches. Carrying your hand low is just a variation of hall guard, just like peek a boo is a variation of full guard. Again, carrying your hand really low has its advantages i.e. covering your stomach with your forearm.

You say carrying your hand low is dangerous inside. I say Mayweather shows you it isn't. You become a smaller target because you have covered nearly everything and then you proceed to rip all kinds of right hands off.

I said X employed half guard effectively against a faster opponent in Taylor. Taylor has serious technical flaws.

An example of being in half guard is this:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I couldn't find great examples but you can see how his left hand is a little lower but his vision increases and he can still block with his shoulder. He isn't wildly out of position or carrying his hand by his hip.

Floyd is a GREAT example of someone employing full guard, half guard and no guard. He employs the original stance, peek a boo, half guard with hand low or high, both hands low, you name it. All while maintaining a great defence. Sometimes half guard doesn't serve him well i.e. vs Judah but sometimes full guard doesn't serve him well. Floyd switches his guard up loads during a fight and that is what a great fighter does, look to Hopkins, Cotto and other good fighters for examples.

True, but.....

I guarentee you that you won't see Cotto using anything but fullguard when he's fighting welterweights.

He's shorter than most of the division and he's not as fast as the guys he's as tall as.

[Vantage_West]

Any examples of a No Guard? Could it be... Ali????tunney, pastrano, (somtimes) ray leonard,naz.

it's more popular than you think.

[achillesthegreat]

True, but.....

I guarentee you that you won't see Cotto using anything but fullguard when he's fighting welterweights.

He's shorter than most of the division and he's not as fast as the guys he's as tall as.
Cotto comes out of full guard is basically every fight.

Quintana had height, reach, size and speed on Cotto but he came out of full guard numerous times, hell he even went into no guard.

[younghypnotiq]

whats the peekaboo stance?

[achillesthegreat]

whats the peekaboo stance?
Have you read my posts?

Peek a boo is a guard, it is not a stance.

Three stances - angled off, square on and text book stance which is in between. This is how you hold your feet. Your stance can be orthodox or southpaw.

Peek a boo is like Floyd Patterson and Miguel Cotto.

[younghypnotiq]

alright im sorry i meant peek aboo gaurd. i have heard many different explanations. 1. was said that they have hands turned palms touching under eyues with a deep crouch.2 deep crouch hands right infront of eyes palms facing each other with hands open. 3. same thign with hands in loose fists

[achillesthegreat]

alright im sorry i meant peek aboo gaurd. i have heard many different explanations. 1. was said that they have hands turned palms touching under eyues with a deep crouch.2 deep crouch hands right infront of eyes palms facing each other with hands open. 3. same thign with hands in loose fists
Everyone can stand differently. The main thing is where the gloves go. Gloves around the chin is normal full guard and as gloves around the cheeks and temple becomes peek a boo.

[younghypnotiq]

oo alright. thanks =). one more question in the full gaurd orthodox stance do you actually go on the tip toes of both feet or what? and both hands are ar chin level right? also what are the strategies of a person using this stance usually? jabbing?

[achillesthegreat]

oo alright. thanks =). one more question in the full gaurd orthodox stance do you actually go on the tip toes of both feet or what? and both hands are ar chin level right? also what are the strategies of a person using this stance usually? jabbing?
If you are stationary then your feet are flat on the floor or slightly pushing off the ball of your right foot. However you will often be moving and thus you get up on your toes. This doesn't mean bouncing about and being all herky jerky but your weight is on the balls of your feet.

Both hands are at chin level. Look at Erik Morales, he usually holds a good text book guard.

You can employ any strategy out of full guard. Jabbing is obviously a key.

[scotchpieirnbru]

on the subject of "no gaurd" fighters, prince naseem was mentioned. does anybody think that he could have actually been affective in the full gaurd style? in my opinion it looked like no gaurd is all he ever learned. probably not the case but your opinions would be interesting.

[younghypnotiq]

If you are stationary then your feet are flat on the floor or slightly pushing off the ball of your right foot. However you will often be moving and thus you get up on your toes. This doesn't mean bouncing about and being all herky jerky but your weight is on the balls of your feet.

Both hands are at chin level. Look at Erik Morales, he usually holds a good text book guard.

You can employ any strategy out of full guard. Jabbing is obviously a key.

thanks achilles. i did a little more research and it said that you should use long rhythm in this stance(move head back and forward at all times) is this true?

[achillesthegreat]

thanks achilles. i did a little more research and it said that you should use long rhythm in this stance(move head back and forward at all times) is this true?
No, it is not true. That is the sort of stupid shit they teach you in boxing manuals.

Be versatile and do what the situation demands. To do this you need to train hard, spar alot, fight alot and soak up knowledge from the best.

[achillesthegreat]

on the subject of "no gaurd" fighters, prince naseem was mentioned. does anybody think that he could have actually been affective in the full gaurd style? in my opinion it looked like no gaurd is all he ever learned. probably not the case but your opinions would be interesting.
It is true that Prince Naseem often fought in no guard. I do think he could have been AS effective in full guard unless he mastered it well. Don't think this means he couldn't and didn't fight out of full guard because he can and he did.

Hamed like Anthony Small, Jones, Ali and others implemented full guard but weren't complete at it. Jones and Ali for example always use it to fight off the ropes.

The best is someone like Floyd who is complete in full guard, half guard and no guard.

[Pugsley]

No, it is not true. That is the sort of stupid shit they teach you in boxing manuals.



:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol:

I also learned that trick from the back of a kellogg's cornflakes.