"Holmes VS. Foreman" in 1999? What was suppose to be.?.?

[MRBILL]

I'm still pissed at the lousy promotion that "Holmes-Foreman" got during the late season of 1998. I wanted to see / witness this fight in Texas in Jan. of '99.... WTF happened??:twisted:

MR.BILL

EXTRA:

A backer pulled-out. Foreman and Holmes purses' were to be cut.. The original 10 mill. to 4 mill. take was to be reduced to 6 mill. to 2.5 mill.... Holmes agreed; Foreman balked..... WTF??:twisted:

[fists of fury]

It would have made a lot more sense for them to fight in '93 or so. They were retreads then, but in '99 they were really shot.

But still, I agree that at some point they should have fought. I'd have picked Holmes to win personally.

[MRBILL]

It would have made a lot more sense for them to fight in '93 or so. They were retreads then, but in '99 they were really shot.

But still, I agree that at some point they should have fought. I'd have picked Holmes to win personally.

Based on the jab alone, YES, Holmes wins....:p

MR.BILL

[Mendoza]

It would have made a lot more sense for them to fight in '93 or so. They were retreads then, but in '99 they were really shot.

But still, I agree that at some point they should have fought. I'd have picked Holmes to win personally.


Foreman backed out of the fight, not Holmes. Its a shame they never fought. I agree. Holmes wins...in the late 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's.

In fact Holmes is will fight Foreman for money right now.

[Charles White]

Finally, some guys agree with me. I have always said that Holmes would win this, most likely by UD. Also, Holmes is still willing to fight Foreman for free.

[Boxing Gloves]

obviously Foreman always has the punchers chance, but Holmes i see beating Foreman at any stage of his career.

[Charles White]

obviously Foreman always has the punchers chance, but Holmes i see beating Foreman at any stage of his career. Same here.

[PowerPuncher]

Imagine if Holmes got the decision over Oliver McCall, there could have been a unification for all 3 belts between the grandads.

Holmes whips Foreman thats why Foreman never wanted the fight

[MRBILL]

1999 or 2009, I don't care... I WANNA SEE "Holmes-Foreman" DUKE-IT!! Even at age 60.. If they train seriously and weigh between 245 to 260 pounds, I'll buy into the event.... Personally, I think Foreman has always been leary of Holmes' jab and boxing ability.... Foreman never seemed confident about beating a Larry Holmes.... Peace....

MR.BILL

EXTRA:

I've spoke to George about this..... Trust me....

[clark]

George always speaks highly of other fighters. Any version of George stops Holmes.

[Bill1234]

George always speaks highly of other fighters. Any version of George stops Holmes.

George always lies and is never a credible source either. If George was just speaking highly of Holmes, why didn't he fight Holmes when Larry would call him out? Larry called "Big George" out for over 20 years and when he did say yes it called screwed up, and he wasn't willing to give up a few million for it where as Holmes for once was.

[Muchmoore]

George always lies and is never a credible source either. If George was just speaking highly of Holmes, why didn't he fight Holmes when Larry would call him out?

Because there were more winnable, meaningful, and big $ fights out there than against Holmes come the 90s. Had Foreman fought Larry and lost, there goes his comeback due to Holmes age, while him fighting a young buck like Morrison and losing doesn't derail the hype train.

Holmes has a fanatical obsession with Foreman also, it's strange.

[mr. magoo]

Frankly, I'm glad this fight never came off, and certainly not in 1999.

Holmes and Foreman were both right around 50 years of age and weren't doing much productive as of late. I suppose either one of them could have won at that point, but it would have meant diddly squat...

[JohnThomas1]

Frankly, I'm glad this fight never came off, and certainly not in 1999.

Holmes and Foreman were both right around 50 years of age and weren't doing much productive as of late. I suppose either one of them could have won at that point, but it would have meant diddly squat...

Totally agree. Actually i see the fight meaning diddly anytime after Foreman first retired TBH. By the time he came back he was a totally different fighter and not as good, obviously. Same with the recent talk of a Lewis - Klit match, it wouldn't mean anything historically rating wise.

[clark]

Holmes doesn't like all the attention Foreman got. George's comeback was more interesting than a Holmes comeback because Foreman still had so much power.

[MRBILL]

Holmes doesn't like all the attention Foreman got. George's comeback was more interesting than a Holmes comeback because Foreman still had so much power.

Foreman just marketed himself a whole lot better the second time around. Foreman found the fountain of Charisma; that's something that good Ol' Larry Holmes lacked... However, BOTH guys are / were great champions...... I just think Holmes had more skill, while Foreman had the power.....:rasta

MR.BILL

[Charles White]

George always speaks highly of other fighters. Any version of George stops Holmes. Not a chance.

[Charles White]

Frankly, I'm glad this fight never came off, and certainly not in 1999.

Holmes and Foreman were both right around 50 years of age and weren't doing much productive as of late. I suppose either one of them could have won at that point, but it would have meant diddly squat... I agree that this fight in 1999 would be less entertaining (still entertaining though). I would much rather see this fight in the early 90's, such as 91 or 92.

[Bill1234]

Frankly, I'm glad this fight never came off, and certainly not in 1999.

Holmes and Foreman were both right around 50 years of age and weren't doing much productive as of late. I suppose either one of them could have won at that point, but it would have meant diddly squat...

It would solve Larry's moaning about Foreman though. Most of his talk about Foreman involves him not fighting him. I do agree that in 1999 it wouldn't have been nearly as good as in 1992 or mid 1977.

[AnthonyJ74]

George always lies and is never a credible source either. If George was just speaking highly of Holmes, why didn't he fight Holmes when Larry would call him out? Larry called "Big George" out for over 20 years and when he did say yes it called screwed up, and he wasn't willing to give up a few million for it where as Holmes for once was.

Holmes has always been just a tad bit jealous of the comebacking Foreman's success and riches. The fight would have meant more to Holmes than to Foreman. Larry has ducked his fair share of fighters over the years - as has Foreman - but he always tries to make it sound like Foreman is a special case. Like Foreman not fighting Holmes was some big, giant sin!

[MRBILL]

Holmes has always been just a tad bit jealous of the comebacking Foreman's success and riches. The fight would have meant more to Holmes than to Foreman. Larry has ducked his fair share of fighters over the years - as has Foreman - but he always tries to make it sound like Foreman is a special case. Like Foreman not fighting Holmes was some big, giant sin!

In a way it IS a sin....... "Holmes & Foreman" come from the same era... The fans were up for it in 1992, '93, '94 & 1995..... Hell, it was still viable in 1999, but not worth what George Foreman had originally thought.... Larry Holmes saw the light and was willing to cut his proposed 4 million dollar purse down to 2.5 million... Meanwhile, George Foreman was unreasonable, and unwilling to budge from his proposed 10 million dollar take.... G.F. did get a respectable 6 million dollar comeback offer, but George balked / backed-out all the way....:fire

MR.BILL

[fists of fury]

Frankly, I'm glad this fight never came off, and certainly not in 1999.

Holmes and Foreman were both right around 50 years of age and weren't doing much productive as of late. I suppose either one of them could have won at that point, but it would have meant diddly squat...

In '99 it would barely garner any interest I do agree there, but say late '93 or somewhere in '94?

I think it would have been a big fight. Foreman was a media darling and had considerable drawing power at this point still, and Holmes' defiant stand against Holyfield wouls still be fresh in peoples' minds. (As would Foreman's, for that matter.)

IN terms of legacy it would mean nothing, but funnily enough I think the public would have definitely been very interested in this fight before '95 or so.

[Bill1234]

Holmes has always been just a tad bit jealous of the comebacking Foreman's success and riches. The fight would have meant more to Holmes than to Foreman. Larry has ducked his fair share of fighters over the years - as has Foreman - but he always tries to make it sound like Foreman is a special case. Like Foreman not fighting Holmes was some big, giant sin!

He does dwell on it too much, but it as was stated, in a way, it was a sin to boxing that the fight never took place. In 1992 (late 1992) the fight would have been massive. Both of them gave a prime Holyfield hell, and they were both the same age, and it was very marketable at the time.

[MRBILL]

I'm nutty enough to accept them guys fighting each other here today in 2008. As long as both Larry & George train for three months in a serious manner and weigh between 245 to 260 pounds, I'll buy into it... None of this 60 year old and 285 to 300 pound crap like they look like right now....:tong

MR.BILL

[Charles White]

I'm nutty enough to accept them guys fighting each other here today in 2008. As long as both Larry & George train for three months in a serious manner and weigh between 245 to 260 pounds, I'll buy into it... None of this 60 year old and 285 to 300 pound crap like they look like right now....:tong

MR.BILL Yeah Im down with that. Can't speculate on Foreman's weight, but he keeps himself active and in fairly decent shape for his age. Holmes has said that if he were to fight Foreman today, he would come in at a reasonable 250 lbs. Much heavier that Holmes is used to, but for his age, not bad.

[MRBILL]

Yeah Im down with that. Can't speculate on Foreman's weight, but he keeps himself active and in fairly decent shape for his age. Holmes has said that if he were to fight Foreman today, he would come in at a reasonable 250 lbs. Much heavier that Holmes is used to, but for his age, not bad.'

Holmes was 250 for "Bonecrusher" Smith in 1999 and 254 for Butterbean in 2002. Yes, Holmes was hefty, but still capable... Holmes was 236 for McCall in 1995.....

George Foreman was 260 for Shannon Briggs in 1997...:deal

MR.BILL

[Bill1234]

'

Holmes was 250 for "Bonecrusher" Smith in 1999 and 254 for Butterbean in 2002. Yes, Holmes was hefty, but still capable... Holmes was 236 for McCall in 1995.....

George Foreman was 260 for Shannon Briggs in 1997...:deal

MR.BILL

Larry walks around now at around 275, so I don't think losing 20-25lbs would be big deal if he was given 3-5 months.

[janitor]

Based on the jab alone, YES, Holmes wins....:p

MR.BILL

I look at it another way.

With every year that went by from Foremans peak onward, the ballance of probability shifted further towards Holmes winning.

[MRBILL]

Larry walks around now at around 275, so I don't think losing 20-25lbs would be big deal if he was given 3-5 months.

I have no doubt that both Larry and George could lose the excess weight they're carrying in a 3 to 5 month training span... If they get serious, they could make the weights of 245 to 260 with ease... That ain't asking too much from them two old farts....:shock:

MR.BILL

[Charles White]

'

Holmes was 250 for "Bonecrusher" Smith in 1999 and 254 for Butterbean in 2002. Yes, Holmes was hefty, but still capable... Holmes was 236 for McCall in 1995.....

George Foreman was 260 for Shannon Briggs in 1997...:deal

MR.BILL Holmes will always be capable.

[Charles White]

I have no doubt that both Larry and George could lose the excess weight they're carrying in a 3 to 5 month training span... If they get serious, they could make the weights of 245 to 260 with ease... That ain't asking too much from them two old farts....:shock:

MR.BILL:lol: Agreed.

[AnthonyJ74]

I'm nutty enough to accept them guys fighting each other here today in 2008. As long as both Larry & George train for three months in a serious manner and weigh between 245 to 260 pounds, I'll buy into it... None of this 60 year old and 285 to 300 pound crap like they look like right now....:tong

MR.BILL

Foreman doesn't look all that heavy these days. I would almost bet that Holmes probably outweighs him now. And Foreman appears to have a bad knee or something - judging by how he sometimes seems to limp a little when they show him on his reality tv show.

[AnthonyJ74]

Yeah Im down with that. Can't speculate on Foreman's weight, but he keeps himself active and in fairly decent shape for his age. Holmes has said that if he were to fight Foreman today, he would come in at a reasonable 250 lbs. Much heavier that Holmes is used to, but for his age, not bad.

From a physiological standpoint, there's really no reason Holmes shouldn't be able to get down to at least the Oliver McCall weight of 236. I mean, at 236 Holmes was still a good 25 pounds over his peak weight. Of course age plays a factor, but I think lackadaisical training/eating habits are the biggest culprit.

[Calroid]

In 1999 Holmes would have completely outboxed Foreman and won via an easy UD.

[Russell]

Yeah, extremely late in their careers fighters like Axel Schulz were handily outboxing Foreman.

Holmes is always going to outbox comeback George in my opinion.

[AnthonyJ74]

Yeah, extremely late in their careers fighters like Axel Schulz were handily outboxing Foreman.

Holmes is always going to outbox comeback George in my opinion.

I used to think that, but I'm not so sure nowadays. Looking back, it seemed to me that Foreman retained more of his natural strengths than did Holmes. Judging by how Foreman looked in his last two fights against Savarese and Briggs, I think Foreman would have been a tough fight for Holmes. Holmes' lack of speed and quickness was a bigger hindrance to him than it was for Foreman.

I don't think Holmes would have been able to outbox and stay away from George for an entire fight had they fought back in '99. George was more durable, stronger, and I bet his stamina was better as well. Plus, his jab was probably better than Larry's was at that point. I guess what I'm saying is that George just seemed to age better and retain more of his skill into late age......

[mr. magoo]

I used to think that, but I'm not so sure nowadays. Looking back, it seemed to me that Foreman retained more of his natural strengths than did Holmes. Judging by how Foreman looked in his last two fights against Savarese and Briggs, I think Foreman would have been a tough fight for Holmes. Holmes' lack of speed and quickness was a bigger hindrance to him than it was for Foreman.

I don't think Holmes would have been able to outbox and stay away from George for an entire fight had they fought back in '99. George was more durable, stronger, and I bet his stamina was better as well. Plus, his jab was probably better than Larry's was at that point. I guess what I'm saying is that George just seemed to age better and retain more of his skill into late age......

Finally, a post about Foreman and Holmes that we can agree on.

I will say however, that as strong as Foreman was in the late 90's, his power seemed to have diminished quite a bit. No longer was he smoking fighters inside of 4 or 5 rounds, but rather he was being taken the distance quite often, and even losing here and there. I think he actually lost quite a bit of snap by that point, and that was by 1997, let alone what he might have looked like in 99.

Nevertheless, I agree that Foreman would have had my vote to win the battle of the ancients, and for many of the same reasons that you provided.

[AnthonyJ74]

Finally, a post about Foreman and Holmes that we can agree on.

I will say however, that as strong as Foreman was in the late 90's, his power seemed to have diminished quite a bit. No longer was he smoking fighters inside of 4 or 5 rounds, but rather he was being taken the distance quite often, and even losing here and there. I think he actually lost quite a bit of snap by that point, and that was by 1997, let alone what he might have looked like in 99.

Nevertheless, I agree that Foreman would have had my vote to win the battle of the ancients, and for many of the same reasons that you provided.

Yeah, I agree that Foreman was no longer a huge power puncher by the late 90's. In fact, I don't think Foreman was the big bone-breaking puncher that he was made out to be during his comeback at all. He was big and strong, and he could hit hard, but I think his power was overrated during his comeback, especially towards the end.

I don't Foreman would score a kayo over Holmes. If they had fought in '99, I think the fight would have been close, and I would probably favor Foreman by a close decision.

[MRBILL]

George Foreman really struggled hard with his last four opponents. Foreman's power went south after the '94 KO over Moorer...

MR.BILL

EXTRA:

I didn't like Foreman's soft 260 for Briggs in 1997....

[Bill1234]

Foreman doesn't look all that heavy these days. I would almost bet that Holmes probably outweighs him now. And Foreman appears to have a bad knee or something - judging by how he sometimes seems to limp a little when they show him on his reality tv show.

Larry is still in good shape. He would runs 3 miles on the tread mill when he's in the gym. He is walking around at around 275, if I had to take a guess, I would say Foreman is around 290 again.

[Calroid]

Yeah, extremely late in their careers fighters like Axel Schulz were handily outboxing Foreman.

Holmes is always going to outbox comeback George in my opinion.

Agreed!

[Bigcat]

The complete ins and outs of the situation was , Roger (man of straw) Levitt was attempting to promote the event with limited funds and a lot of bravado.. He supposedly promised George a Million Dollars, and Larry around 400,000 , but as the days went by and the event seemed very real, pressure to produce made Levitt get cold feet and the promotion collapsed..

Levitts cheques weren't worth the paper they were written on. I do have opinions on he fight , I say George was always wary of Larrys skills even as an old man, Lerry had a great chin and reccouperative powers and may have been a bit too cute for George , and i do think George knew it...

[mantle11x19]

George By Death!! D-Rosi

[mantle11x19]

George By Death. D-Rosi.

[MRBILL]

George By Death. D-Rosi.

WTF?

[AnthonyJ74]

George Foreman really struggled hard with his last four opponents. Foreman's power went south after the '94 KO over Moorer...

MR.BILL

EXTRA:

I didn't like Foreman's soft 260 for Briggs in 1997....

Or did it have more to do with Foreman's opposition being better? Guys like Briggs, Savarese, and even Schultz were of heartier stock than were the tomato cans Foreman blasted out earlier in his comeback. And the opponents were larger as well; Foreman feasted on a lot of undersized/underpowered guys early on in his comeback.

[round15]

Shavers wanted Foreman as well but that fight never happened. I think Larry would've beaten George at any stage of their careers but at any moment in the fight a big Foreman right hand could end it.

[AnthonyJ74]

Shavers wanted Foreman as well but that fight never happened. I think Larry would've beaten George at any stage of their careers but at any moment in the fight a big Foreman right hand could end it.

Too bad Holmes didn't pursue fights against Page and Thomas with the same fervor that he pursued a Foreman fight with! :yep

[D9Garrard]

I think the Foreman comeback was a great run and that George got five times further than anyone had a right to expect. I also think Foreman would've paddled Tyson like an oppositional foster child early in the run. That being said, and saying that I think George was a master psychologist as well, the Holmes fight seems like the worst possible matchup for him and I suspect he was well aware of it.

[apollack]

Foreman might have been superman, but Holmes was kryptonite. Larry always knew it, and probably so did George. Holmes by decision.

[MRBILL]

I too thought Holmes could beat Foreman with the jab alone in 1999 over a mere 10 rds pretty easy with a score of 6 to 4 in rds.....

MR.BILL

[TAC602]

Too bad Holmes didn't pursue fights against Page and Thomas with the same fervor that he pursued a Foreman fight with! :yep

:rofl