Marvin Hagler vs. Nikolay Valuev

[cross_trainer]

Who wins?

[heerko koois]

Hagler on points......Valuev will not get any chance to hit him......

[RonnieHornschuh]

with 330+ pounds against 160 lbs he doesn't have to hit accurately. punches on the arms or somewhere else would probably do the job. plus the clinching would be too much for hagler. hagler couldn't hurt niko but if he runs like ottke he might get the decision. very strange potential match though.

[Senya13]

Valuev W-KO1 Hagler
Time: 0:15

[Dempsey1238]

Come on, No WAY does Valuev ko Hagler in 1 round. much less at 15 of the first round.

[jonesjrp4p1]

valuev outweights him by almost 200 lbs i think thats enough

[Amsterdam]

Valuev's just too big.

[mightyd40]

i gotta agree with the majority here.....valuev is just to big and would eventually wear on hagler....he would stop him sometime in the fight

[Senya13]

Indeed, what's with me today.
Valuev W-DQ1 Hagler
Time: 0:00
Hagler runs to his room as soon as he sees Valuev coming to the ring, and refuses to get out and fight, leaving the referee no choice but to disqualify Hagler. The man didn't have enough heart to step up to light heavyweight, and we are expecting him to face a heavyweight?

[Duodenum]

Walker/Uzcudun all over again.

Hagler UD 15 Slow Ponderous Circus Phreak

[Icemmann]

Indeed, what's with me today.
Valuev W-DQ1 Hagler
Time: 0:00
Hagler runs to his room as soon as he sees Valuev coming to the ring, and refuses to get out and fight, leaving the referee no choice but to disqualify Hagler. The man didn't have enough heart to step up to light heavyweight, and we are expecting him to face a heavyweight?

You're going to actually try and claim Hagler had no heart? Hard to picture him not fighting guys in his own division, while talking about all the great fights he'll be making. :roll:

[mr. magoo]

Hagler was pound for pound, 10 times the fighter that Valuev is, but this is getting way too carried awy. In the first place, Marvin would never be able to make the weight and be in healthy fighting condition. It's just too big of a leap. He's too much of a natural at middle. Valuev's reach would keep marvin well out of striking range, and proabably off balance for much of the evening.

This is nothing against Hagler, and in fact, Valuev is not even remotely in Hagler's league from a pound for pound sense, but there are just some fantasy matchups that can't be made.

[Muchmoore]

Valuev is just way too big. I hate to say this because most times it doesn't apply but the only people who pick Hagler here have no clue what it's like to be in a boxing match. Valuev is literally twice his size.

[enquirer]

Senya,why didnt jones have the heart to fight lennox lewis or one of the klitchskos? Or even buster douglas?
Heck why not some cruisers? Or darius at lt heavy. Or even g-man at middle/supermiddle?
Hagler ducked no worthwhile challengers at his weight,and his heart was shown clearly v hearns ,mugabi and against many others....Hpw many times did jones show heart?

[Duodenum]

Hagler was pound for pound, 10 times the fighter that Valuev is, but this is getting way too carried awy. In the first place, Marvin would never be able to make the weight and be in healthy fighting condition. It's just too big of a leap. He's too much of a natural at middle. Valuev's reach would keep marvin well out of striking range, and proabably off balance for much of the evening.

This is nothing against Hagler, and in fact, Valuev is not even remotely in Hagler's league from a pound for pound sense, but there are just some fantasy matchups that can't be made.Well, my concern here is that you may be penalizing Hagler for maintaining top physical condition and a peak weight. He may well have been an in-shape version of Toney, somebody who could hang at any weight above his own. I'm not even sold on Valuev winning a future match with Toney, should one be arranged. Peter was supposedly going to kill him. 24 rounds later, we're still waiting. Hagler had a longer reach than James, and better mobility. Like Chagaev, Marv's also a southpaw.

Maybe Hagler/Valuev wouldn't be Walker/Uzcudun all over again. Maybe it would look more like Loughran/Impelletiere. It just appears to me that you are selling Hagler extremely short by describing him as merely ten times the fighter on a P4P basis. Anyhow, my $0.02.

[enquirer]

It is a bit of a shame that marvin never ventured over 160 really,because guys like us never really know how he would go at even lt heavy,despite the fact he has the best p4p chin you could ever wish for,along with tremendous boxing skill,determination,the soutrhpaw stance,wealth of experience,and a seeming like for tall fighters.....
Someone should ask marv why he spoiled our fun and left us speculating...!? :yep

[Senya13]

Hagler didn't duck anyone? He ducked Hearns for a rematch, choosing bigger money less risk Ray Leonard instead.

[enquirer]

Yes a hearns rematch would have been great and enhanced marvins legacy even more depending on if he won a rematch......However seeing as ray v marvin was a fight everybody had always wanted to see,that this was the richest and biggest fight that could be made,and that if he beat ray it could possibly also enrich his resume i dont think you can call it a pure duck....Also marvin maybe knew he was coming to the end of the road and probably felt he had this unique obstacle/hurdle to conquer....
Sugar ray equals big box office and legacy senya.......:good
Now kindly answer my jones questions please......

[Vantage_West]

Who wins?if you werent cross trainer i would be shure to complain for trying to stir shiz.




but hagler he was quick and had a good rech...valuev even though very tall has a vwery small reach in comparison to his size

[mr. magoo]

Well, my concern here is that you may be penalizing Hagler for maintaining top physical condition and a peak weight. He may well have been an in-shape version of Toney, somebody who could hang at any weight above his own. I'm not even sold on Valuev winning a future match with Toney, should one be arranged. Peter was supposedly going to kill him. 24 rounds later, we're still waiting. Hagler had a longer reach than James, and better mobility. Like Chagaev, Marv's also a southpaw.

Maybe Hagler/Valuev wouldn't be Walker/Uzcudun all over again. Maybe it would look more like Loughran/Impelletiere. It just appears to me that you are selling Hagler extremely short by describing him as merely ten times the fighter on a P4P basis. Anyhow, my $0.02.

My intent was not to sell anyone short or penalize them for maintaining their weight or whatever. I just feel that this is a rather unrealistic matchup. While Hagler may quite possible have succeeded at other weight classes, we'll never know for sure, given that he stayed a perpetual middleweight his entire career. Your example of Toney was a good one, but James at least proved that he could fight in higher divisions ( not that Hagler couldn't, that isn't what I'm saying. ) He also managed to survive Peter, as you say, but let's face it, Peter is not Valuev ( at least not size wise ) .Also, I feel that it was not entirely inappropriate of me to give Hagler the respect of being 10 times better than Valuev, but only on a p4p basis. Nikolay is 7'0" tall, weighs 300 something LBS, was undefeated in his first 46 fights, and has never been knocked out. Sure, his competition was crap, but that's one of the reasons why I rate Hagler as being better p4p by a long shot.

Your points were well taken, and I'm not disagreeing with any of them, but I just don't know how Hagler would manage to pull this one off. And, my doubts do not come from selling him short.

[Dostoevsky]

I have to agree with the majority, Hagler is p4p superior but there comes a time when size just beats quality.

Valuev would be far to big for Hagler.
I'm not sure if Valuev could KO hagler maybe a later TKO from accumalation of punches or a wide UD.

[mr. magoo]

I have to agree with the majority, Hagler is p4p superior but there comes a time when size just beats quality.

Valuev would be far to big for Hagler.
I'm not sure if Valuev could KO hagler maybe a later TKO from accumalation of punches or a wide UD.

Unfortunately, it seems that the only logical assumption would be to go with Valuev. This does not in any way shape or form guarantee that Nikolay would win, but it's difficult to imagine the opposite outcome. Being reasonable for a moment, let's take a look at the dimensions here. Valuev was a full 15 inches taller than Hagler and on an average night, would have outweighed him by 160 Lbs. That's double Hagler's weight!!! Of course, if these two were to meet, Marvin would have bulked up a bit, but does anyone really see him as being any bigger than maybe 195 or 200? I also don't buy the notion that Valuev was just a circus sideshow freak. He had 9 title defenses and was undefeated in his first 46 fights. Sure, everyone attacks him for his comp, but then no one ever gets on Louis or Marciano's case for some of the crap they fought either. Lastly, Hagler was far greater pound for pound than Valuev, but let's face it, he wasn't invincible. He was floored by Juan Roldan, cut badly by the Hitman ( who was moving up in weight ) , drew with Antuofirmo, and outboxed by LEanard, who hadn't fought in three years, and who was also moving up.

[enquirer]

The knockdown by roldan was totally bogus,and ive heard nobody say any different ,ever,except roldan,surprise,surprise....:smoke

[ripcity]

It is not a matter of who has more talant Hagler wins hands down. Yes Valuev is large and clumsly but he dose have some skill. It is concivibal that Hagler could avoide being hit for 12-15 rounds but that is unlikely. Valuev by KO. A boxer with size and even a little bit of skill is going to almost allways win. If you're going to bring up Joe Louis vs Primo Carnera or Abe Simon rember that Marvin Hagler is no Joe Louis.

[mr. magoo]

The knockdown by roldan was totally bogus,and ive heard nobody say any different ,ever,except roldan,surprise,surprise....:smoke

For a moment it did indeed look like a slip, but it was certainly ruled a knockdown. I don't believe Hagler was hurt though.

[enquirer]

It was ruled an official knockdown,yes,but in reality was a slip......Marvin had the best p4p chin i have ever seen,and faced and took the best punches of three of the greatest punchers p4p of all times in hearns,mugabi and cyclone hart...And took punches off slightly lesser punchers such as roldan without any damage.....

[cross_trainer]

if you werent cross trainer i would be shure to complain for trying to stir shiz.

Fortunate that I am, then. :D

[Icemmann]

Hagler didn't duck anyone? He ducked Hearns for a rematch, choosing bigger money less risk Ray Leonard instead.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

[KTFO]

Hagler KO1 by low blow

[ChrisPontius]

Maybe Hagler/Valuev wouldn't be Walker/Uzcudun all over again. Maybe it would look more like Loughran/Impelletiere. It just appears to me that you are selling Hagler extremely short by describing him as merely ten times the fighter on a P4P basis. Anyhow, my $0.02.

Oh please.
Impelletiere was a mediocre fighter who lost even when he "stepped up" to journeymen.

Valuev has beaten top contenders and has never been dropped or even hurt against big heavyweights. By the way, Toney lost both fights with Peter and you could even say that Peter ruined him, as he barely got by a journeyman recently and lost every single round of the rematch against Peter.
And Hagler is no Loughran either. Loughran was a big lightheavyweight who has a proven record against heavyweights. Top heavyweights. Hagler didn't prove anything above middleweight.

[rendog67]

Would love to see marvin pull it off but the size difference is just to much

queston should be is there a smaller fighter capable of getting the result?

[Boxed Ears]

As close as they are, it's very unlikely they would fight anyway. :bart

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[Guyfawkes]

Hagler's chin would not be shaken by Nicky V's weak womenly punches. Hagler takes this 11 rounds to 1.
WAR Hagler!!

[Azzer85]

Valuev is just way too slick.

He would comfortably beat Hagler on points, like SRR and cause Hagler to hang em up.