Bigger Puncher...R. Marquez or Pacman?

[kg0208]

For me, these are the two hardest punchers p4p in the sport (especially among elite fighters) Who do you think hits harder?

[H .]

Sam Peter hits pretty hard :D

[kg0208]

I think I am gonna go with too close to call.

[PATSYS]

Am I missing something here? Pac decks undeckable guys like MAB, Morales and JMM. What has Rafa done to get the vote over Pac?

And Pac koed Sasakul at 112, Ledwaba at 122 so even if we are talking in P4P sense, this is a no brainer for me.

Definitely Pac!

[jimmie]

Right now id take Marquez at his weight over Pacquiao at 130 he isnt a 1 punch KO artist at that weight to me his right hook is good but he still relys alot on the straight left. Marquez seems to have more legitmate 1 punch KO power now even though he boxes more his lefthook,uppercut,straight right all have serious power behind it. Either way you cant go wrong as both are fantastic fighters with dynamite in the hands.

[kg0208]

Am I missing something here? Pac decks undeckable guys like MAB, Morales and JMM. What has Rafa done to get the vote over Pac?

And Pac koed Sasakul at 112, Ledwaba at 122 so even if we are talking in P4P sense, this is a no brainer for me.

Definitely Pac!

He didn't deck JMM.

And Marquez stopped Austin, Johnson, and Vasquez in their primes. Morales certainly wasn't prime when Pacman beat him.

So thats why Marquez gets consideration.

[PATSYS]

He didn't deck JMM.

And Marquez stopped Austin, Johnson, and Vasquez in their primes. Morales certainly wasn't prime when Pacman beat him.

So thats why Marquez gets consideration.

Pac didn't deck Marquez?? WTF? He decked him 3 times!

Who the fukk is Austin? And Vaszquez quit due to nose bleeding!

[jimmie]

Pac didn't deck Marquez?? WTF? He decked him 3 times!

Who the fukk is Austin? And Vaszquez quit due to nose bleeding!

Are u kidding you dont know who the fuck Tim Austin is ? He was a dam good fighter in his prime.

[kg0208]

Pac didn't deck Marquez?? WTF? He decked him 3 times!

Who the fukk is Austin? And Vaszquez quit due to nose bleeding!

We aren't counting KD's. Marquez has dropped alot of fighters. I am not counting those. JMM got up too...so no he didn't deck him.

Who is Tim Austin? Look him up, trust me, he was a great fighter. Vasquez quit due to nose bleeding from a PUNCH. He was stopped. You aren't gonna count that but want to count JMM who wasn't stopped at all?

[Antwuan Maxx]

Right now id take Marquez at his weight over Pacquiao at 130 he isnt a 1 punch KO artist at that weight to me his right hook is good but he still relys alot on the straight left. Marquez seems to have more legitmate 1 punch KO power now even though he boxes more his lefthook,uppercut,straight right all have serious power behind it. Either way you cant go wrong as both are fantastic fighters with dynamite in the hands.

My thoughts exactly. Pacquaio's power at 126 and below was serious. It's still above average at 130, but he's become somewhat a volume puncher in this division, usually stopping opponents by an accumulation of punches rather than a few big shots like at smaller weights. Marquez was a concussive puncher at 118 and seems to have bought that same power up to 122. Every punch he throws is a bomb. Even his jab. He staggered Mabuza with it and broke Vasquez's nose with it. Marquez gets my vote as the hardest puncher in the sport P4P.

[nervousxtian]

Pacs power is overrated. He stops more guys from an accumulation than from one punch power.

He hits hard, but people talk him up like his ATG power.

[PATSYS]

We aren't counting KD's. Marquez has dropped alot of fighters. I am not counting those. JMM got up too...so no he didn't deck him.

Who is Tim Austin? Look him up, trust me, he was a great fighter. Vasquez quit due to nose bleeding from a PUNCH. He was stopped. You aren't gonna count that but want to count JMM who wasn't stopped at all?

I know who Austin is, the point is that he is no where in the level of the guys Pac beat. Great fighter?? :lol: I guess your threshold for classifying great fighters needs to be reviewed.

Vasquez has been KD a lot of time, by so many fighters. Rafa bleeding his nose then later making him quit is no way as impressive display of power as Pac knocking JMM 3X.

[MrMagic]

Am I missing something here? Pac decks undeckable guys like MAB, Morales and JMM. What has Rafa done to get the vote over Pac?

And Pac koed Sasakul at 112, Ledwaba at 122 so even if we are talking in P4P sense, this is a no brainer for me.

Definitely Pac! He doesn't deck, he breaks people down.
Marquez, pound for pound at least.. has to get the edge!
I mean Marquez, he is one polished puncher, he can put you in coma with a left hook, right hook/straight right, uppercuts.. you name it.
His combinations are just beautiful and Manny has that straight left which hurts but Marquez combinations are much better.
I'm not trying to discredit Manny, he's got great power.. but not quite like Rafa!! :bbb

[PATSYS]

You kids prolly never saw Pac's one punch KOs if you think he is just a volume puncher.

You expect him to KO bigger guys with ATG level of chin at 130 with 1 punch?

Put Rafa against JMM, or the 122 versions of MAB or Morales and tell me that Rafa would KO them with just 1 punch.:lol:

[kg0208]

I know who Austin is, the point is that he is no where in the level of the guys Pac beat. Great fighter?? :lol: I guess your threshold for classifying great fighters needs to be reviewed.

Vasquez has been KD a lot of time, by so many fighters. Rafa bleeding his nose then later making him quit is no way as impressive display of power as Pac knocking JMM 3X.

What you consider impressive and what I consider impressive are different things then. Making a guy quit is more impressive then knocking someone down 3x and then nearly losing the fight.

Tim Austin defended the bantamweight title 9 times. He was Rings top Bantamweight from 1998 till 2003 except for one year when he was #2. That's a great fighter.

And yes, better than the version of Morales that Pacman beat.

[rendog67]

pac for me

[kg0208]

:thumbsup Smart man.

Manny does have good pop in his gloves but he's not quite the legendary puncher that some make him out to be. A more fair comparison would be comparing Rafa to punchers like Darnell Wilson or Kermit Cintron. Now those guys can bomb.

Cintron needs to drop a top fighter before I put him on my list. But he LOOKS like he could drop anyone.

[PATSYS]

What you consider impressive and what I consider impressive are different things then. Making a guy quit is more impressive then knocking someone down 3x and then nearly losing the fight.


Remember we are talking of power here.

I guess for you SRL making Duran quit is a more impressive display of POWER than Hearns knocking SRL down 2X and settling for a draw.

[kg0208]

Remember we are talking of power here.

I guess for you SRL making Duran quit is a more impressive display of POWER than Hearns knocking SRL down 2X and settling for a draw.
You are using someone who is not considered a puncher against someone who is considered a puncher. Also Duran quit because of the way Leonard was fighting, not something caused by a punch.

I am counting KO's, not KD. Vasquez was stopped, JMM was not. And I don't think it was Pacmans power that stunned JMM. It was the speed IMO and not seeing the punches coming. Once he got Pacman timed, he never dropped him again.

Each situation is different. These situations do not happen in a vacuum. You know as well as I that you cannot insert situations like that.

[Nawfal]

marquez punches hard p4p no doubt

[brooklyn1550]

Rafael Marquez

[Cobra33]

Tim austin was not in his prime and niether was Marc Johnson.
Pac by far has proven to be the more powerful puncher

[kg0208]

Tim austin was not in his prime and niether was Marc Johnson.
Pac by far has proven to be the more powerful puncher

LOL....Are you going to argue that Austin and Johnson who were 31 and 30 were not prime, but MAB was at barely a year younger and 20 more fights on his body? Go ahead....I want to read your argument.

[Galaxy]

i think now its Marquez but at 126 and below it was Pac. if both were at 122 i'd go with Pac cuz other than his straight left pac had horrible tech at throwing his punches yet ko guys with it on the other hand Rafa has some of the most beautiful tech when he throws those bombs, he really puts his whole body into his punches.

also while Tim austin was an exiting and tough guy he was a little bit overrated being an american fighter. i would put him on the same level as Ledwaba.

[the_what]

Pac didn't deck Marquez?? WTF? He decked him 3 times!

Who the fukk is Austin? And Vaszquez quit due to nose bleeding!

You dont know who Tim Austin is? He only defended the Bantamweight title 10 times in the late 90s early 00s. Get the fuck outta here. Austin is a hall of famer and one of the best Bantamweights of all time.

[hooligan]

i say pac...obviously rafa hasnt ko'd anyone at 130

pac has been knocking out guys in rafa's division way before...hope you got my drift

[kg0208]

i think now its Marquez but at 126 and below it was Pac. if both were at 122 i'd go with Pac cuz other than his straight left pac had horrible tech at throwing his punches yet ko guys with it on the other hand Rafa has some of the most beautiful tech when he throws those bombs, he really puts his whole body into his punches.

also while Tim austin was an exiting and tough guy he was a little bit overrated being an american fighter. i would put him on the same level as Ledwaba.

Austin was overrated cuz he was American? Wow....I guess those title defenses were only because he was American as well.

[the_what]

Tim Austin was one of my favorite fighters growing up. So to see somebody shit on him really ticks me off. :lol:

[JMotrain]

R. Marquez is the bigger puncher. He has a wider arsenal of punches and he is way more accurate than Manny. Manny has great power as well, but he doesn't stop guys with 1 punch.

[Jinx]

Rafa p4p hits harder with both hands...and he would've KTFO the 122 version of Pac...

[Galaxy]

Austin was overrated cuz he was American? Wow....I guess those title defenses were only because he was American as well.

i think youve been around long enough to know that a tough, exiting good american will have a higher stock than a tough, good non-american. thats just the way it is, i'm not calling him a bum. he was a good champion in his reign, pulled some Gatti-esque performance in some of his fights but in no way is he a HOF and while his 10 deff of his belt is comendable, his comp was not Hof caliber.

[JAM Killer]

Pacquiao is the harder hitter. Speed is power.

[achillesthegreat]

Rafael doesn't have PACS speed. Speed doesn't help raw power, it does help to get a ko in the boxing ring.

So Marquez is heavier handed but in the ring PAC has the speed that makes him just as dangerous a puncher.

[knockout]

Pac

[kg0208]

i think youve been around long enough to know that a tough, exiting good american will have a higher stock than a tough, good non-american. thats just the way it is, i'm not calling him a bum. he was a good champion in his reign, pulled some Gatti-esque performance in some of his fights but in no way is he a HOF and while his 10 deff of his belt is comendable, his comp was not Hof caliber.

I have been around long enough to know that people love to talk about an American bias that I don't think is half as prevelant as you guys think it is.

[Sonny Carson]

Let's see what happens to Marquez power when he goes up to 126. Remember what happened to Wilfredo Gomez's power?

[GARCIA]

Marquez


Fuck PAC. he's only got the 1-2.

[kg0208]

There may be truth or not to any american bias, but the question here is ...How great a fighter this American really is?

Was he a perennial ring top p4p?

Was he a p4p among boxing insiders.

Because if hes not, then whether theres bias or not, who gives a rats ass..
He was not rated on most p4p. He was however rated the top Bantamweight from 1998 to 2002 by Ring all except one year, and that year he was #2 (he had not lost, I don't know why he dropped).

I would consider that along with his 9 titles defenses of his title to consider him a great fighter. P4P isn't the only thing that equals a great fighter....There are many fighters not rated p4p right now that are still great fighters. Do you feel that only P4P rated fighters are great?

[blackstrider]

Pacquiao is the harder hitter. Speed is power.

I agree..if pac has speed alone he cnt knock hall of famers. its his power that gives him the blinding speed.

[blackstrider]

Marquez


Fuck PAC. he's only got the 1-2.

Only in Pac VS Jmm fight. Didnt u watch pacs other fight? Id say the Pac Vs JMM is pacs worst performance.

A pure hater.:-(

[ko factor]

I would say Pac in a sense that he was the only fighter who had knocked out the granite chin Morales in the ring. Do you think Rafa would have had a chance to knock Morales out if he had fought him? Aside from Pac who else had knocked out Morales? Nobody... Only Pac. :deal

[PATSYS]

You dont know who Tim Austin is? He only defended the Bantamweight title 10 times in the late 90s early 00s. Get the fuck outta here. Austin is a hall of famer and one of the best Bantamweights of all time.

No, you get the fukk off. Defended his belt 10 times? Against who??

I know Austin but to say he is a great fighter is absurd. I can only recall him being once in the P4P list (and #10 at that) for a very short while.

[Fedor Em]

No, you get the fukk off. Defended his belt 10 times? Against who??

I know Austin but to say he is a great fighter is absurd. I can only recall him being once in the P4P list (and #10 at that) for a very short while.

Being #10 on the p4p list makes you a GREAT fighter, sorry. :lol: :lol:

[Alo2006]

He didn't deck JMM.

And Marquez stopped Austin, Johnson, and Vasquez in their primes. Morales certainly wasn't prime when Pacman beat him.

So thats why Marquez gets consideration.


I agree :bbb

[puga_ni_nana]

vasquez is the bigger puncher compared to marquez. :D

[Chert]

after this fight, the right comparison should be vasquez and pac, not rafa.

[FiveStoneFists]

LOL....Are you going to argue that Austin and Johnson who were 31 and 30 were not prime, but MAB was at barely a year younger and 20 more fights on his body? Go ahead....I want to read your argument.

Johnson was fighting above his natural weight, and there were questions if and when he could perform at Bantam. Austin was too inactive, still great wins though - he was not expected to win. They were not considered prime by the time Marquez got them, both were about two years removed from their primes.

[sues2nd]

For me, these are the two hardest punchers p4p in the sport (especially among elite fighters) Who do you think hits harder?

Izzy is a bigger puncher than Raph....but who cares....god this was one hell of a fight.

[kg0208]

No, you get the fukk off. Defended his belt 10 times? Against who??

I know Austin but to say he is a great fighter is absurd. I can only recall him being once in the P4P list (and #10 at that) for a very short while.

So only top 10 p4p fighters are considered great fighters? That's news to me. So if you drop out of the top 10, go back in, then drop out again, without ever losing....are you still a great fighter? Since it's based on the ranking only right? Is Hatton a great fighter? He has been in and out of the p4p rankings for quite a while.

[PATSYS]

PAC is pulling away from the poll. People starting to show reason

Amazing how the outcome of tonight's fight turns the entire forum opinion around. :lol:

[PacDbest]

Pac just toy with Vasquez in sparring.

Vasquez TKO Rafa.

Therefore Pac's the Harder Puncher P4P.

[Main Events]

Tim Austin??? Did I see it right? someone dissing Tim Austin? He was not only good. He was great! To diss Marquez for KOing Austin is like dissing Pac for Koing MAB/EM. They were not in their primes but these are world class fighters.

At this time, I'd say they are even. Pac had 1-punch KO power in the 122lbs (Sasakul, Elicier, and the undefeated Mexican who chicken danced I forgot his name). 126lbs-130, he had 1-punch KD power only :yep Let Marquez move up to 126 and I'll let you know who the harder puncher is.

[johnco]

[quote=PacDbest]Pac just toy with Vasquez in sparring.

Vasquez TKO Rafa.

Therefore Pac's the Harder Puncher P4P.[/quot

exactly.... :good
i feell sorry for kg and the rest for being so smart in analyzing power :cool::cool::yep:yep

[Bangis]

Pacs power is overrated. He stops more guys from an accumulation than from one punch power.

He hits hard, but people talk him up like his ATG power.


it seems to me that you havent seen PAC fight in the lower weights....
PAC's power is definitely not overrated its just that at 130 he doesn't have that 1 punch KO power he had at the lower weights...

[retriever]

Remember though that Pac was fighting above his natural weight. id like to see if Rafa can k.o guys at 130.

[bulakenyo]

Rafael has heavier hands compared to Pacman. His punches may seem just normal punches, it doesnt look like he's loading up on them, but when it lands, you can actually see how hard it is.

Pacquiao though, he hits hard, but you can see him load up on his powershots. He swings for the fences, and when it lands, youre in trouble.

Pacman needs at least half a round of boxing to completely turn things around in his favor.

Rafael just needs a couple of solid hits to turn the tide in his favor.

Rafael edges Pacman on sheer 1 punch power. But it doesnt make Pacman a lesser fighter.

[PacDbest]

Rafael has heavier hands compared to Pacman. His punches may seem just normal punches, it doesnt look like he's loading up on them, but when it lands, you can actually see how hard it is.

Pacquiao though, he hits hard, but you can see him load up on his powershots. He swings for the fences, and when it lands, youre in trouble.

Pacman needs at least half a round of boxing to completely turn things around in his favor.

Rafael just needs a couple of solid hits to turn the tide in his favor.

Rafael edges Pacman on sheer 1 punch power. But it doesnt make Pacman a lesser fighter.

Rafa fought Vasquez two times in a slugfest, Vasquez was never down.

How many times did Pac decked Vasquez in sparring??? That is with the full head gear & Pac spars with Winning Gloves!!!

With that kind of slugfest, do you think Vasquez can last 3 rounds with Pac???

[bulakenyo]

Im just saying that Rafael seems to need less effort to come up with a 1 punch powerbomb. And Manny seems to give all he's got on his punches to come up with a 1 punch KO.

That doesnt mean Manny KOs his opponents less effectively compared to Rafael. They just differ in how they get most of their KOs.

Marquez: more 1 punch KOs
Pacquiao: more flurries, haymakers, accumulation stoppages TKOs

[Sister Sledge]

Pacman!

[Morrissey]

Rafa fought Vasquez two times in a slugfest, Vasquez was never down.

How many times did Pac decked Vasquez in sparring??? That is with the full head gear & Pac spars with Winning Gloves!!!

With that kind of slugfest, do you think Vasquez can last 3 rounds with Pac???

Are they confirmed info?

[blackstrider]

the truth is Vasquez never knock anyone in just one punch..manny pac did vs 3k battery and Lucero to name a few. Can u name a boxer knocked out by vasquez with just one punch?

People think pacman only rely on accumolation of punches which s not true. Manny likes to brawl and trade punches and in order to outwork an opponent in a brawl u must be quick and throwing more punches so the opponent wnt hav a chance to counter. it was just one punch landed in morales jaw that knock him down in their 3rd fight when manny was cornered in the ropes. remember even the bigger diaz was not able to knock morales, manny did...peace:hey

[Toopretty]

the truth is Vasquez never knock anyone in just one punch..manny pac did vs 3k battery and Lucero to name a few. Can u name a boxer knocked out by vasquez with just one punch?

People think pacman only rely on accumolation of punches which s not true. Manny likes to brawl and trade punches and in order to outwork an opponent in a brawl u must be quick and throwing more punches so the opponent wnt hav a chance to counter. it was just one punch landed in morales jaw that knock him down in their 3rd fight when manny was cornered in the ropes. remember even the bigger diaz was not able to knock morales, manny did...peace:hey

But he knocked morales down from accumulation :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl and his speed..:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl not one punch. Pac has power and amazing hand speed. He is going to knock guys down. But Marquez puts you out. Period. no question. :rofl

[SweetScienceFan]

Marquez is definitely a bigger puncher. Pacman's blazing speed is what makes him so dangerous.

[PacDbest]

Are they confirmed info?

It's was Gym Legends from the wild card gym. Remember what Jim Lampley said during the Pac JMM Fight "Knockdown day after day in sparring, sparring partner with broken ribs...." Pac is a legend from Gym to ring. Search also "Pac sparring" in youtube you'll see Vasquez-Pac sparring there.

[PacDbest]

But he knocked morales down from accumulation :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl and his speed..:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl not one punch. Pac has power and amazing hand speed. He is going to knock guys down. But Marquez puts you out. Period. no question. :rofl

In 2 fights Rafa hasn't stop Vasquez or even knockeddown. How come Larios & Gonzalez knocked down Vasquez?

[kg0208]

[quote=PacDbest]Pac just toy with Vasquez in sparring.

Vasquez TKO Rafa.

Therefore Pac's the Harder Puncher P4P.[/quot

exactly.... :good
i feell sorry for kg and the rest for being so smart in analyzing power :cool::cool::yep:yep
You really are blind. I picked "to close to call".

Pacman is a bigger man than Marquez, so he should toy with the smaller man in sparring (If I even believed this). This doesn't prove he is a harder puncher p4p.

I feel sorry for you guys....outside of Pacman reality here, we actually logic to do comparison and analysis.

[kg0208]

In 2 fights Rafa hasn't stop Vasquez or even knockeddown. How come Larios & Gonzalez knocked down Vasquez?

First fight was a stoppage.

[PATSYS]

So only top 10 p4p fighters are considered great fighters? That's news to me. So if you drop out of the top 10, go back in, then drop out again, without ever losing....are you still a great fighter? Since it's based on the ranking only right? Is Hatton a great fighter? He has been in and out of the p4p rankings for quite a while.

No, being in the top P4P ranking is only a part of the indication but it is a good one.

The only thing you've said about Austin is his 10 title defense. You haven't even made an argument about his opposition. If his opposition is good, I would bet it would have catapulted him in the P4P rankings much higher and consistently at that.

[johnco]

[quote=johnco]
You really are blind. I picked "to close to call".

Pacman is a bigger man than Marquez, so he should toy with the smaller man in sparring (If I even believed this). This doesn't prove he is a harder puncher p4p.

I feel sorry for you guys....outside of Pacman reality here, we actually logic to do comparison and analysis.

i believe you losing your reflexes kg. pac started from 106 if you know what i mean....

[kg0208]

No, being in the top P4P ranking is only a part of the indication but it is a good one.

The only thing you've said about Austin is his 10 title defense. You haven't even made an argument about his opposition. If his opposition is good, I would bet it would have catapulted him in the P4P rankings much higher and consistently at that.
No it's not the only thing I said. I said he was rated the Top Bantamweight for 4 of 5 years by Ring and he was #2 the year he wasn't rated #1. You said he was at the bottom of the p4p rankings once. That is a great fighter in my book. His competition wasn't great, it wasn't bad. There is certainly more to being a great fighter than competition.

[kg0208]

[quote=kg0208]

i believe you losing your reflexes kg. pac started from 106 if you know what i mean....
And I believe you are forgetting some of the many excuses used for Pacmans losses. He was weight drained, etc.

Pacman was only in those weight classes because he was young. In 4 years he moved up 4 weight classes. That was not his natural weight. Those are the reasons given by Pacman fans for his early losses. He was still growing right? Are you telling me now that 106 was his natural weight and that he wasn't growing?

Neither Vasquez nor Marquez has done that. Pacman is bigger than BOTH of them. You cannot compare the start weight of a teenager with a 20yr old. Again, these are Pacman fans words, mainly PacDbest. And when he said them, you all chimed in agreeance. So don't try to pull the 106 card now.

[PacDbest]

Hey KG, What's the poll saying???

[johnco]

[quote=johnco]
And I believe you are forgetting some of the many excuses used for Pacmans losses. He was weight drained, etc.

Pacman was only in those weight classes because he was young. In 4 years he moved up 4 weight classes. That was not his natural weight. Those are the reasons given by Pacman fans for his early losses. He was still growing right? Are you telling me now that 106 was his natural weight and that he wasn't growing?

Neither Vasquez nor Marquez has done that. Pacman is bigger than BOTH of them. You cannot compare the start weight of a teenager with a 20yr old. Again, these are Pacman fans words, mainly PacDbest. And when he said them, you all chimed in agreeance. So don't try to pull the 106 card now.

hell no!!!!!!!!!!!! you are really losing your reflexes. pacs started at 106. that is documented. you can make an argument if that is his natural weight or not, but it is no brainer that if a guy started from 106 and he's still terrorizing his opponents at 130, then i am giving the benefit for pac. rafa started heavier than pac. so i hope you are getting the clearer picture. and besides asians has small built :yep:yep

[kg0208]

Hey KG, What's the poll saying???

Pacman

Hey PacDbest, one don't set a precedent for yourself. If you start saying "what's the poll saying" as though it validates something and proves you're correct, then I would suggest you back up and do the same for all those polls Pacman lost in fantasy matchups and other polls that you felt perfectly ok arguing the other side.

2nd, I didn't say Marquez hit harder. I don't care who wins the poll:deal

[johnco]

Hey KG, What's the poll saying???

he might say you changed your log in name to another pseudo :lol:

[kg0208]

[quote=kg0208]

hell no!!!!!!!!!!!! you are really losing your reflexes. pacs started at 106. that is documented. you can make an argument if that is his natural weight or not, but it is no brainer that if a guy started from 106 and he's still terrorizing his opponents at 130, then i am giving the benefit for pac. rafa started heavier than pac. so i hope you are getting the clearer picture. and besides asians has small built :yep:yep

I didn't say he wasn't at 106. I am saying that you can't say that he was only there because he was a kid and was still growing at a rapid pace, and that's why he lost those early fights and then say he is naturally smaller than the guys at 122. It's either one or the other.

Pacman gets credit for what he did at 106, but if he was still growing naturally at such a rapid pace that he moved from 106 to 122 in 4 years, then he isn't going to get credit for being a smaller man in a larger weight class. If he was becoming weight drained at a weight class in less than a year because he was a teen growing into his body, then thats fine. I get that. But then you can't use that start weight to say he is naturally smaller than 122 fighters.

He IS bigger than Marquez and Vazquez. They only started at higher weights because they weren't still growing....

[kg0208]

he might say you changed your log in name to another pseudo :lol:

Wow....you guys are brain dead:lol::lol::lol::lol:

I didn't pick Marquez as a harder puncher...so why would I have a problem with Pacman winning?

[PH|LLA]

now that Pac weighs in at 130 he can no longer be called the biggest puncher p4p in the sport.

Vic Darchinyan in the biggest puncher p4p, but his technique sucks

[kg0208]

now that Pac weighs in at 130 he can no longer be called the biggest puncher p4p in the sport.

Vic Darchinyan in the biggest puncher p4p, but his technique sucks

Valero may have something to say about that....

[Yorae]

Uhm...Pacman? Uh sorry. Lame bump. New guy. Back reading. Bleah.

[kalunya5964]

R. Marquez is the bigger puncher. He has a wider arsenal of punches and he is way more accurate than Manny. Manny has great power as well, but he doesn't stop guys with 1 punch.

Pac had KOd a lot of guys with 1 punch, Hatton being the latest. Pac's power had been proven from 112 to 147, Rafael is not yet proven at 126.

[PildiLagiMo]

too early. ask this question again when raffy gets to fight someone at 147.

[Powerman55]

He didn't deck JMM.

And Marquez stopped Austin, Johnson, and Vasquez in their primes. Morales certainly wasn't prime when Pacman beat him.

So thats why Marquez gets consideration.

WHAT THE F**K? He didn't deck JMM? 4 times in 2 bouts? Are you blind?

[Powerman55]

Marquez


Fuck PAC. he's only got the 1-2.

That's a bitter Pac hater vote. Doesn't count.

[Powerman55]

I would say Pac in a sense that he was the only fighter who had knocked out the granite chin Morales in the ring. Do you think Rafa would have had a chance to knock Morales out if he had fought him? Aside from Pac who else had knocked out Morales? Nobody... Only Pac. :deal

Good point. You can't argue with facts.

[PH|LLA]

today i would say Abraham

[Stinky gloves]

Sam Peter hits pretty hard :D

Valuev hits harder than both of them