Was Jack Dempsey a dirty fighter?

[BlackWater]

I ready somewhere that he was dirty fighter, in the sense that he would do whatever necessary in addition to his exceptional speed and power, to win. Is there any truth to that? Things like elbowing or other such techniques.

[bum of the week]

He was definitely one of the champs who showed most disregard for the rules, breaking basically every rule there was.
The blame however shouldn't fall so much on Jack as on the refs who let him get away with it.

[BlackWater]

He was definitely one of the champs who showed most disregard for the rules, breaking basically every rule there was.
The blame however shouldn't fall so much on Jack as on the refs who let him get away with it.
What kind of things did he get away with?

[Dempsey1238]

low blows(Sharkey)
pulling a foe down(Firpo and NO that was not a knockdown lol)
Kidney punchings(Gibbions)
Head butting(Tunney in fight II)
And his most often tactic, the all mighty rabbit punch, may lord have mercy on them when hit by a rabbit punch. (Gibbions, Tunney 1 and 2, and I belive Sharkey)

Oh yeah and hitting a foe when they are tied up in the ropes, (Gibbions)

I think that about covers it.

[ChrisPontius]

Every great fighter had one dirty trick or a whole sleeve of them. Dempsey is no exception.

[Mendoza]

low blows(Sharkey)
pulling a foe down(Firpo and NO that was not a knockdown lol)
Kidney punchings(Gibbions)
Head butting(Tunney in fight II)
And his most often tactic, the all mighty rabbit punch, may lord have mercy on them when hit by a rabbit punch. (Gibbions, Tunney 1 and 2, and I belive Sharkey)

Oh yeah and hitting a foe when they are tied up in the ropes, (Gibbions)

I think that about covers it.

Rack em'. This sums it up. Dempsey bent the rules often, but at least he was agressive and trying to win while doing it.

[janitor]

I ready somewhere that he was dirty fighter, in the sense that he would do whatever necessary in addition to his exceptional speed and power, to win. Is there any truth to that? Things like elbowing or other such techniques.

Calling Dempsey a dirty fighter is an insult to men like Andrew Golotta.

[ChrisPontius]

Calling Dempsey a dirty fighter is an insult to men like Andrew Golotta.

Not "taking" away anything from Golota, but Dempsey did have the benefit of not having his fights widely available with DVD quality and slow motion replays to show all dirty stuff done.

[Seamus]

Dempsey learned to fight in mining camps, saloons and whorehouses. What we call dirty fighting was de facto in these arenas.

[BlackWater]

Calling Dempsey a dirty fighter is an insult to men like Andrew Golotta.
Just trying to learn a thing or two, sorry. :lol:

[Russell]

Dempsey was also keen on hitting Willard mere milliseconds after his glove had left the canvas, again and again and again. Jess saw that it was coming, but had no choice since he wasn't going to lay down.

[Marciano Frazier]

Dempsey was also keen on hitting Willard mere milliseconds after his glove had left the canvas, again and again and again. Jess saw that it was coming, but had no choice since he wasn't going to lay down.
That was perfectly legal, not dirty.

That said, as Seamus points out, the sort of rabbit-punching/mauling/low-blowing tactics Dempsey employed were the standard in the hobo camps and mining outfits where he learned his trade, and he wasn't about to change something that had worked so well for him his entire career. Dempsey was a dirty fighter.

[Russell]

That was perfectly legal, not dirty.

That said, as Seamus points out, the sort of rabbit-punching/mauling/low-blowing tactics Dempsey employed were the standard in the hobo camps and mining outfits where he learned his trade, and he wasn't about to change something that had worked so well for him his entire career. Dempsey was a dirty fighter.

Marciano's elbows were "legal" in his ten year long career too. Things flew back then that wouldn't know. Hell, the neutral corner rule was implemented before Dempsey's career was even over.

[OLD FOGEY]

I ready somewhere that he was dirty fighter, in the sense that he would do whatever necessary in addition to his exceptional speed and power, to win. Is there any truth to that? Things like elbowing or other such techniques.

Well, as others pointed, Dempsey learned his craft in rough and tumble mining camps and western saloons in which no one was very fastidious about the rules. We should also remember that rules have evolved and tightened over the years--this is true not only in boxing but in other sports as well, at least here in America--Watch old films of gridiron football for some of the vicious tackling techniques which would get a quick 15 yard penalty today. Baseball pitchers used to resort to beaning rather commonly. Sal Maglie even said publicly that he went for the beaning on the 3 and 2 count because the batter wasn't expecting it, while aiming for the back of the skull so the batter would duck into the ball.

That said, though, the Firpo fight was so over-the-top, including hitting Firpo once when he rising from the canvas, standing behind a fallen opponent, etc, that it produced a big controversy and had much to do with tightening up the rules.

Bottom line--no one will confuse any honest report on Dempsey's fighting tactics with a hagiography. And Marciano, Liston, Baer, and a number of other champions are right up there too in the rough department.

[fists of fury]

Dirty fighting is part of the game and with Dempsey's tearaway style, it's basically expected.