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Exclusive Interview: Lesra Martin

By Ed Ludwig

08.10 - While in Vancouver recently to promote the new documentary "The Journey Of Lesra Martin" I had the pleasure of sitting down and speaking with Lesra at the Hotel Vancouver. The film, directed by Cheryl Foggo and produced for the National Film Board of Canada by Selwyn Jacob, was part of the Vancouver International Film Festival.

He is best known as the key figure that ultimately led to the release of the wrongly convicted Rubin "Hurricane" Carter. This new documentary chronicles his life as a young child, growing up in the ghettos of New York, meeting the three Canadians and reading "The 16th Round" which would change his life forever. Many of you are familiar with his story from the blockbuster movie "The Hurricane" starring Denzel Washington. His story goes much deeper than what was portrayed in the movie and I felt it was important to speak with Lesra and share his incredible journey.

Ed Ludwig: What were your dreams prior to meeting the three Canadians?

Lesra Martin: Long before I met the group of Canadians that ultimately took me from New York to Toronto I wanted to be a lawyer and I was under the impression that all lawyers went to John J. College. I didn’t know the difference between a college and a law school. Truth is I could not have gotten into John J or any law school in the United States because little did I know that even though I went to school and studied hard, went to school day in and day out and having one of the best attendance records, in grade ten I could still not read or write. It was absolutely phenomenal when you think about it. I wanted to be a lawyer but the likelihood is I would have needed a lawyer as Rubin often says before I would have ever become one.

EL: Did you ever think about where you would be today if you had never met Terry, Sam and Lisa?

LM: Terry, Sam and Lisa were the three people introduced to us in the movie "The Hurricane" and yes I have wondered where I would be and what I would be doing if I didn’t get lucky enough to run into the path of these three Canadians. I knew my life would be substantially different than it is today. I look at other people in the community and I look at friends that I had of my age at the time, a lot of them are no longer with us. They have been shot down in the streets, killed in a street brawl, dealing drugs or in jail and that’s a vast majority of males that I knew. The likelihood is that I would have become a statistic just like most of my friends have or a statistic like most of my brothers. Two of my four brothers passed away from living a life of hell. Living in a ghetto community and suffering the consequences and ramifications of that community. One brother died of AIDS and the other because of someone deciding to shoot into a crowd of people that they thought were a threat to them and my brother happened to be an innocent bystander gunned down in the streets of New York. Chances are that I would have been one of those numbers.

EL: Before you bought the book that changed your life, was boxing a sport you followed?

LM: Not really. Boxing was something my dad looked at all the time and therefore periodically I might see it. We did not have a television at our home for many years so we would watch a boxing match at the barbershop or a restaurant. Boxing was always a big deal in our community and we would always hear about the greats like Muhammad Ali fighting or Joe Frazier fighting. I always had a lot of respect for boxing that was instilled in me as a result of growing up in a community that revered boxers.

EL: How many times have you watched the "Hurricane" movie?

LM: I’ve probably watched in full, three or four times. I think most people are surprised at that thinking I would have watched it a countless number of times. Quite frankly it’s a difficult movie to get through, it’s emotional. The fact is there still is other Rubin Carter’s in the world, in Canada and in the United States. Wrongful convictions occur too often and it’s a difficult movie to watch. With that in mind I don’t make a point of watching it over and over again.

EL: Have you spoken with Rubin recently and if so, how is he doing?

LM: I haven’t spoken to him recently. Actually it’s been sometime now, a little over a year I think. I understand he is doing well. I spoke with his secretary a couple of weeks ago. Rubin is travelling, speaking and doing well and I am happy to hear that. I have had that common goal relationship with Rubin. Sometimes he wants to hang out and do stuff and other times he needs his solitude and his space. I just go with the flow with that.

EL: Is it true that Rubin is living in New York now?

LM: Nope, he still lives in Toronto.

EL: Is Rubin still actively involved with public speaking and working with the wrongfully convicted?

LM: He is in Toronto heading AIDWYC. He is the executive director of AIDWYC, "The Association in Defence for the Wrongfully Convicted".

EL: Why has John Artiss kept a very low profile after he and Rubin were released from prison?

LM: I spoke with John last year sometime at a function in Atlanta and he’s a great speaker from what I hear. I don’t know John that well but I guess he’s kept a low profile, not so much out of personal choice but when we made the movie he did not spend a lot of time on his role and that is unfortunate because he is a courageous fellow and was equally pressured to confess to something he didn’t do that they claimed Rubin did and he never gave into that. The temptations I’m sure were great, to say "Hey Rubin did it and I had nothing to do with that. I was just along for the ride". At the end of the day he never did. I don’t know if his low profile is out of choice but out of the fact that he wasn’t featured that greatly in the movie "The Hurricane".

EL: Is it hard for you to make time for your family and friends because of the demand for you to appear on talk shows and public speaking engagements?

LM: It is difficult when you have a busy schedule, when you are flying all over North America to meet engagements. It makes it hard to spend time with your family and friends but one of the best inventions in my opinion and the worst is the cell phone so you can always be in touch when you’re on the road. So I make a point of calling my friends and they can always reach me on my cell if need be and I call my family the same way. When I am at home it is quality time with my family and friends that I have in the local community. I have accepted that this is going to be my life and schedule and it’s up to me to enjoy it without neglecting my family.

EL: Are your roots firmly planted in Canada or do you see yourself returning to New York one day?

LM: Because of the tragedy in New York on 9/11 of course I think that every New Yorker, I can’t speak for them all that have left years ago but if they are anything like me there is a yearning or desire to go back to New York just to help out and show support. New York was a tough place for me because it’s a land of contradictions. It’s considered the Big Apple but sometimes I think it’s rotten to the core so I have conflicting emotions about New York. Because of the tragedy, knowing I’m a New Yorker I want to go back and help out when I can. In terms of living there or anywhere in the USA permanently, it’s doubtful because my wife is content with the small community where we have chosen to reside so it would be very tough to uproot that. Leaving is doubtful.

EL: Your story is an amazing one. Growing up in the ghetto and not being able to read and today you are a successful crown prosecutor and motivational speaker. Your message for people today is of hope and to follow your dreams. Is this the driving force behind Lesra Martin?

LM: Well, as you know I took time off from practicing as a lawyer and so I haven’t practiced for close to two years now and when I did practice it was under the belief that what I was doing contributed greatly to a better society. In that sense, even then my job was about hope and having dreams, following your aspirations. Public speaking has provided me the opportunity to get out and talk about continuing to take a step when adversity comes into your path. Public speaking is a story about hope and achieving your dreams and I guess that is the driving force behind Lesra. Do what you can when you can so that’s what I try to do. Months ago a teacher said to me, "I wish I could instil in my students that it’s important in life to start with where you are, work with what you have got and do what you have to do." I like that. It’s a three-step program. It’s about getting up and moving, assess where you are, figure out what you need to do and start doing it. It can make a difference.

EL: When you first started public speaking did you have butterflies?

LM: I have butterflies every time I get up on the stage and talk to people. It can be in front of eighty people or three thousand people and I will still have butterflies. I have spoken to great speakers about that and I have been speaking for many years now. Long before "The Hurricane" movie came out I was speaking not nearly as regularly but every month or so I would be before a crowd and I have been doing that for about ten or fifteen years. The butterflies have never gone away and the more I do it I think they should go away but now I accept the fact that it is not going to happen. Good speakers tell me when you lose the butterflies and the nervousness then it is time to get out of the business.

EL: I watched your new documentary, "The Journey Of Lesra Martin" and I found it very moving. I learned a lot about you. Was it important to get your message out from your own personal point of view?

LM: The documentary has provided me the opportunity to share a greater part of me and be more intimate with the viewers and to be more open and personal. It’s not necessarily my own personal perspective because I had no directorial control over the movie but I did have the opportunity to introduce to the viewers for the first time the people that got me here. Not just the group of Torontonians that helped me out initially but the family, sisters, brothers, aunts and uncles that have all contributed to get me where I am today so yes it was important to me to be able to do that. In today’s society everyone thinks that they have to do it on their own. I don’t think there is any shame in needing a hand or accepting a hand and counting yourself fortunate when you are the one who can lend that hand. We all need to lend a hand and accept a hand when we can.

EL: Did the National Film Board of Canada approach you about doing the documentary?

LM: Yes, Selwyn Jacob of the National Film Board approached me in late 1999 or early 2000. He asked me about allowing him to do this documentary and I liked the away he approached me. I had faith, not initially but I put him through some hoops and the writer and director through hoops. Cheryl Foggo, the director of the film, was initially just going to write the script and someone else was going to direct. I put everybody through the hoops and she became the director. I was happy about that. By the end of the day I think they did a wonderful job. They were sensitive, respectful of my family and I think they captured the conflict and to some extent the guilt that a person who has been given the opportunity in life can feel when someone else who is equally deserving of that opportunity to get one.

EL: How long did it take to film the documentary?

LM: In total, we filmed for about a year and researched for a few months prior to the filming and then edited it after that. We are looking at a project that took about two and a half years.

EL: For people who live outside Canada that would like to see the documentary, can they contact someone for more information?

LM: The National Film Board has a website, www.nfb.ca and on the website there are avenues to purchase a VHS copy. We are also looking for broadcasters so it will more than likely get picked up for broadcasting in the United States. It will always be available for teachers and for educational purposes throughout North America.

EL: Are you planning on a return to your job as a crown prosecutor?

LM: I don’t have any immediate plans to return to prosecuting or practicing law at all in the immediate future. I do keep my ticket in the law profession current because you never know and if I did return I would probably return as a defence attorney. I wanted to work as a prosecutor because I wanted to see that side of the profession. Now I would go into defence if I were to go back now but you never know because things change every day.

EL: If you were asked to direct or produce a documentary, is that something that would interest you?

LM: Absolutely. I have never directed or produced but I had great involvement as you know, in the movie "The Hurricane" and a significant involvement in this documentary on me. My ultimate goal and desire is to host my own show in Canada preferably. The show would focus on issues of literacy and education. It would also focus on the support from celebrities who are in and out of Vancouver who will frequent the show because they too are committed to the issues of education and literacy. I want to blend a program that’s fun, inspiring and serious at the same time.

EL: Are there days where you wish that you were not a celebrity?

LM: I don’t consider myself a celebrity. I just do what I do and wonder what my day will bring when I wake up each morning. I don’t think of myself as any different than anybody else. People see me and know who I am therefore I have to accept that notoriety and it’s okay. I hope I stand for something good and that I represent open inspiration to people and if that’s the only contribution I can make from being a celebrity then that’s okay. There are times when I go places with my family when I would like the privacy. My wife is a very private individual and so there are times that I think privacy would be okay.

EL: Where will Lesra Martin be ten years from now?

LM: I don’t know where I will be ten years from now. I just take it one day at a time. I just finished most of my autobiography and it is before publishers in New York and Toronto and I think that’s going to do extremely well. I’d like to see it on the bestseller list and it is a well-written book. I think I have a good, honest shot at it. I read a lot and I think there is something ironic about not being able to read or write at the age of fifteen and now I am writing my own book. I take each day as it comes, one step at a time.

EL: My final question, with not being able to read until later than most people, was it the fault of the New York education system?

LM: There is no doubt. The New York school system failed me and many other students. It’s a poor system. Unfortunately the teachers who work in some of the inner cities have given up. They think they can’t make a difference. These kids are pushed on from grade to grade without a clue on how to read or write. By the time they reach some of the upper grades it’s an awful struggle to turn their abilities around. A lot of teachers just played the role of a disciplinarian. They would just sit at the top of the class like mine did and read the newspaper. The kids could play cards, tic-tac-toe and as long as they were quiet they would get a star at the end of the day. If you had enough stars at the end of the year you would pass. The school has become a place of learning discipline and not a place for using your brain and that is a shame. The system today is actually worse in the ghetto. There are lots of little programs popping up all over the United States and some communities in Canada who’s primary focus on a smaller scale is to make a difference. Teaching kids too read and write, promoting literacy. I have a lot of pride for those types of organizations.

For more information on Lesra Martin please visit www.lesra.com and www.nfb.ca/lesramartin

For information on the National Film Board Of Canada and the upcoming documentary featuring George Chuvalo and Muhammad Ali you can visit www.nfb.ca

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